It is a challenge, the wife has to be able to handle pressure and have significant skills to manage and convince alpha to not stray. Having a wife that can pull the equivalent men orbiters as the alpha with women is pretty convincing. The orbiters for the wife have to be other alphas as well. Having just looks as a women isnt going to be enough. Although i agree intelligence isnt the main attraction, it comes in handy. Probably 120 iq to keep a real alpha.
Must look healthy, and decently groomed, and high T. But women have a wide range of words for men’s looks that would indicate handsomeness of different kinds. Rugged for instance.
Trump is an alpha and hes not good looking. Being tall, rich and in charge of his own empire was enough. There are also poor and short alphas, but theyre going to have other things that make it up.
What is it you actually want? Love of a woman? Respect from men?
I don't care but be specific with your own goals, exactly, and figure out what would achieve them.
Being alpha doesn't give you what you want. Being short is a problem to attract women, but you know all the other things they like. Max those out. Fit, fashion, money.
If you want respect from men, its the same. What do the men you want respect from actually respect?
I am not asking whether I could be an alpha. I know that I am not an alpha male, nor is that my desire. I am curious about what makes an alpha. I am wondering if personality alone can make one or if physical presence must be combined with personality. That is why I presented the extreme scenario of a very short individual. I think we can be sure a very ugly individual can be an alpha, so while that question is relevant it already has an answer.
Alpha isn't a physical build, it's a pattern of personality and behavior. Tall and good looking helps to nurture the Alpha personality in the formative years, but a short man could arrive at the pattern of behavior as well.
Your question, can personality overcome deficiencies... kevin hart is ugly but high charisma. He can pull just about any woman bc of his personality, which helped him earn his money too.
I wouldn't say that Kevin Hart is ugly in the conventional sense. I thought his height held him back more. But are you saying that personality, if charismatic enough, can entirely outweigh all anti-alpha physical traits?
Of course perceptions of aesthetics are subjective, and I would venture to speculate whether race is influencing your own opinion on this matter. But Kevin Hart has sharp features and no clearly disproportionate facial features. If he was considered ugly by most, that combined with his height would have certainly held him back in life. We all know that if you take the ticket you will succeed in Hollywood, but still.
Many years ago, I was home from college for summer break. Bored, I call a girl I met and got to know the previous autumn. We talk and I ask her on a date to an amusement park. She declines. I move on and forget about it. Several weeks later I'm with my friends enjoying a typical summertime party and out of the blue I'm accosted by a guy I went to high school with, but don't know very well. He tells me to stop calling "Wendy." I'm confused. I tell him I haven't talked to "Wendy" for weeks and don't know what he's talking about. I have no "relationship' with Wendy. Afterward, I realize, one phone call was significantly enhanced to make another man jealous.
The women I see thrive with alphas are those who a) are willing to submit to if not encourage his ambition and b) are able to cultivate an interior world that does not need to be coddled by him.
It's difficult for women to understand that for these men sex and beauty is just another resource and conquest has a diminishing return. If you're a wife, you've been chosen. Don't make the prize a burden for him or yourself.
The example I saw was a TikTok where the wife said "early on, I knew he had to have a big dream. Something that could consume him so he wouldn't consume me. I told him he needed to become a billionaire." The husband even said (they're sitting on a lovely yacht during the interview) that he knew he could be a millionaire but at the time a billionaire seemed unattainable and you can't even spend all that money and the wife didn't miss a beat saying, "you don't need the money, you needed the goal. It was what would be best for all of us as a family." She struck me as exceptional.
Sexual fidelity is a lot harder for alphas than it is for most of the other ranks. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Deltas and Gammas carp when we're studying David in the Bible where they pretend a sort of superiority when Bathsheba comes up. They shut up really quick when I point out that none of us have ever had the most beautiful and desirable woman of our generation come on to us and accordingly have no cause to boast of our superior fidelity. Notice that God is way more pissed off at David because of the census than for the Bathsheba affair.
It doesn't really affect my self-confidence either way when I point this out. Groups like these usually look to me to provide what you'd call non-commissioned officer leadership.
It's not passive aggressive, it's aggressive-aggressive. I'm saying that, hey, you and I have never been tempted by a realistic possibility of sex with women like Marilyn Monroe or Bathsheba. Accordingly we should be circumspect in our criticism of men considered much higher status than us who didn't pass such a test. Generally when I tell a man this who is serious about his faith, he realizes, yeah, he's convicted and stops with the empty virtue signal. The scriptural reference I've used is that men who are putting on their armor should not boast like those who are taking it off.
Your argument is flawed in that David saw her naked and invited her to his house. It's clear what his intention was before he knew whether she was sexually interested in him or not.
I've only had one case in my life where a hotter woman than my current girlfriend offered me immediate sex in an attempt to monkey branch. I only passed that test due to a teenaged case of oneitis, and have no illusions that I'd have passed if she'd been hotter still. Maybe I'm a little more faithful than my options...but only a little. Guessing that's true of most of us.
As the mom of an Alpha son I wish I could give workshops to young women about how not to be put on waivers. If we still lived in a time of worthy matron matchmaking I probably could.
An Alpha wife gains the social capital of her husband by association. If she internalized that too closely she might start engaging in "prove-I'm-still-worthy" compliance tests just when she's reached the age of fading looks. Alphas always have options so if a girl makes it more painful to be with her than without her she'll find herself replaced. You-Go-Grrl-ism is just as destructive to Alpha wives as to the rest of womenfolk.
The most resourceful response to that surge of jealousy is to take a dispassionate, curious approach to it: "That's an interesting reaction."
Of course, it is much easier for me *say* that than it is for most people to *do* it, but it can be done. You can't control your thoughts and emotions, but you can control your focus.
I would imagine most alphas end up cheating in a long-enough relationship, but the mother of your children is the mother of your children. I think marrying young and inexperienced women helps too even if they are less attractive Having that initial attraction at a bonding-age locks in a pheremone reaction so that the woman will accept sex ritualistically and the boner will always show up. Sex should be habitual, though it's good to spice it up now and again. The biochemical reaction can short-circuit though if a woman denies sex: thought can enter into the picture and kill the magic.
A wife to an alpha seems to be the female equivalent of heavy lies the head that wears the crown. Everyone wants it, but few understand the burden. That being said, what would the wife of a sigma say?
Vox said he only ever dated very attractive girls. I wonder if it was due to high standards on Vox’s part, or because single girls under about 8 realize they’d be left heartbroken and kept a wall up, or a combination of both.
I don't think I ever went below a 7. I think it was partly high standards, partly an instinctive tendency toward delayed gratification, and partly the knowledge that I needed to be cautious about gold diggers due to my family.
“Jealousy tends to kill that which it seeks most to protect.”
In other words, “don’t spoil yourself.” It is perfectly feasible for a woman who literally has her dream man to spoil the image he has of her by acting contemptuously and spitefully for no reason other than her own insecurities and self-doubts. It’s an interesting paradox: The less she tries to defend herself, the more secure she actually is.
I’d say the same goes for lower status men as well. If a guy tries desperately to defend his position or status in the eyes of a woman, then she’ll (correctly) interpret that as insecurity and fear and respond with contempt. For a man to prove himself in the eyes of a woman, he must refrain from doing exactly that. Instead he should focus on becoming the best version of himself that he possibly can be, and if that’s attractive or satisfying to her then she’ll let him know in one way or another.
My tai chi teacher used to point out that seeming -- or worse being -- aggressive or defensive merely proves you are NOT the alpha, you were not dangerous, and you were likely prey. The dangerous man doesn't have to swagger and show it. And that's very attractive to security conscious women.
The lion, lying in the shade with his eyes half closed. NO other animal thinks he's not extremely dangerous. His absolute confidence allows him to be mild(-seeming) and not on guard.
Doubt men can fake this though... Get to the gym and the dojo.
The phrase 'fake it until you make it' has never been about pretending. That's rhetoric to do it without insulting someone weak. If you're interested in it, you will do it. And you will forget that it's hard work, as everything is hard work.
If you go to the gym or the dojo, you like the good feelings which come from it.
It was in the context of uncharitably simps and charitably male viewers and almost certainly majority low status males, but this teller saw this statement "Men are easy, just be nice to them"
He can always find another better hotter and so on, but can he find someone that fits like an old glove? Someone who makes sandwiches worth murdering for? A class ladylike act whose serenity will be beautiful even when age claws rivers in her face?
If you are mad and unstable, why he can find tons of hot crazy people, our societies are geared towards producing them. It certainly is dangerous to be nice to random men you don't know, but your SO? Please. The existence of women that get it condemn the rest, no wonder the absurd insult of 'pickme girl' exists. "Oh she's just pretending to treat you well, she's really bitter and mean like me on the inside"
Why can't you at least fake it then idiot?
Best practice those sandwich skills and smiles or set your sights a little lower.
"Men are easy." Few truer words have eve been written. In the final analysis, most men just want a home. A woman who is a good cook, homemaker and potential mother is an absolute treasure. I'm surprised more low tier women don't understand this and leverage it. To do so would greatly enhance their prospects.
And don’t forget that yellow mustard and some kind of good chip on the side are essentials. Not Lays anymore though because of that Spain Bud-Light-esque marketing and the new chemical tastes.
It's one of the easiest insults against fat women. She will stay single until she learns how to make and give a sandwich to a man, without accidentally eating it herself.
I miss the days in the 80s when most fat women at least convincingly faked a pleasant disposition. I guess they had to, the sexual marketplace wasn't overrun with obese or even overweight women. One of the kindest women I ever have known was the clearly overweight but not really obese mother of one of my friends when I was in my teenage years. She was also extremely respectful of her husband.
Vox, what’s your take on men who never marry. Can a never married man be a sigma or alpha?
It is a challenge, the wife has to be able to handle pressure and have significant skills to manage and convince alpha to not stray. Having a wife that can pull the equivalent men orbiters as the alpha with women is pretty convincing. The orbiters for the wife have to be other alphas as well. Having just looks as a women isnt going to be enough. Although i agree intelligence isnt the main attraction, it comes in handy. Probably 120 iq to keep a real alpha.
Are being tall and handsome necessary for someone to be an alpha? Can personality overcome deficiencies in these areas?
Must look healthy, and decently groomed, and high T. But women have a wide range of words for men’s looks that would indicate handsomeness of different kinds. Rugged for instance.
Trump is an alpha and hes not good looking. Being tall, rich and in charge of his own empire was enough. There are also poor and short alphas, but theyre going to have other things that make it up.
What would you say about someone who was extremely short, far below average?
Since youre asking, you aren't alpha.
What is it you actually want? Love of a woman? Respect from men?
I don't care but be specific with your own goals, exactly, and figure out what would achieve them.
Being alpha doesn't give you what you want. Being short is a problem to attract women, but you know all the other things they like. Max those out. Fit, fashion, money.
If you want respect from men, its the same. What do the men you want respect from actually respect?
I am not asking whether I could be an alpha. I know that I am not an alpha male, nor is that my desire. I am curious about what makes an alpha. I am wondering if personality alone can make one or if physical presence must be combined with personality. That is why I presented the extreme scenario of a very short individual. I think we can be sure a very ugly individual can be an alpha, so while that question is relevant it already has an answer.
Tom Cruise is 5'7" and definitely an alpha.
Silvio Berlusconi, ex-prime minister of Italy is 5'4"
Winston Churchill was 5'4"
Jack Ma, creator of Alibaba is 4'11"
Alpha isn't a physical build, it's a pattern of personality and behavior. Tall and good looking helps to nurture the Alpha personality in the formative years, but a short man could arrive at the pattern of behavior as well.
That makes sense.
No, but it helps.
No, but it helps.
You can't be ugly. You need high charisma. Kevin Hart comes to mind but impractical to achieve.
Why do you think Kevin Hart is an alpha?
Your question, can personality overcome deficiencies... kevin hart is ugly but high charisma. He can pull just about any woman bc of his personality, which helped him earn his money too.
I wouldn't say that Kevin Hart is ugly in the conventional sense. I thought his height held him back more. But are you saying that personality, if charismatic enough, can entirely outweigh all anti-alpha physical traits?
Hes ugly. Yes.
Of course perceptions of aesthetics are subjective, and I would venture to speculate whether race is influencing your own opinion on this matter. But Kevin Hart has sharp features and no clearly disproportionate facial features. If he was considered ugly by most, that combined with his height would have certainly held him back in life. We all know that if you take the ticket you will succeed in Hollywood, but still.
Many years ago, I was home from college for summer break. Bored, I call a girl I met and got to know the previous autumn. We talk and I ask her on a date to an amusement park. She declines. I move on and forget about it. Several weeks later I'm with my friends enjoying a typical summertime party and out of the blue I'm accosted by a guy I went to high school with, but don't know very well. He tells me to stop calling "Wendy." I'm confused. I tell him I haven't talked to "Wendy" for weeks and don't know what he's talking about. I have no "relationship' with Wendy. Afterward, I realize, one phone call was significantly enhanced to make another man jealous.
The women I see thrive with alphas are those who a) are willing to submit to if not encourage his ambition and b) are able to cultivate an interior world that does not need to be coddled by him.
It's difficult for women to understand that for these men sex and beauty is just another resource and conquest has a diminishing return. If you're a wife, you've been chosen. Don't make the prize a burden for him or yourself.
The example I saw was a TikTok where the wife said "early on, I knew he had to have a big dream. Something that could consume him so he wouldn't consume me. I told him he needed to become a billionaire." The husband even said (they're sitting on a lovely yacht during the interview) that he knew he could be a millionaire but at the time a billionaire seemed unattainable and you can't even spend all that money and the wife didn't miss a beat saying, "you don't need the money, you needed the goal. It was what would be best for all of us as a family." She struck me as exceptional.
"If you're a wife, you've been chosen. Don't make the prize a burden for him or yourself."
That is a spectacular way to put it. I have witnessed far to many relationships, where the opposite appears to be the goal.
Sexual fidelity is a lot harder for alphas than it is for most of the other ranks. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Deltas and Gammas carp when we're studying David in the Bible where they pretend a sort of superiority when Bathsheba comes up. They shut up really quick when I point out that none of us have ever had the most beautiful and desirable woman of our generation come on to us and accordingly have no cause to boast of our superior fidelity. Notice that God is way more pissed off at David because of the census than for the Bathsheba affair.
"They shut up really quick when I point out.."
How much your self-confidence increase at these moments? I guess you don't have high status in these group?
It doesn't really affect my self-confidence either way when I point this out. Groups like these usually look to me to provide what you'd call non-commissioned officer leadership.
I'm confused, it seems kinda passive agressive and they accept that?
It's not passive aggressive, it's aggressive-aggressive. I'm saying that, hey, you and I have never been tempted by a realistic possibility of sex with women like Marilyn Monroe or Bathsheba. Accordingly we should be circumspect in our criticism of men considered much higher status than us who didn't pass such a test. Generally when I tell a man this who is serious about his faith, he realizes, yeah, he's convicted and stops with the empty virtue signal. The scriptural reference I've used is that men who are putting on their armor should not boast like those who are taking it off.
Your argument is flawed in that David saw her naked and invited her to his house. It's clear what his intention was before he knew whether she was sexually interested in him or not.
Similar to the virtue-signaling and vows to administer bloody endings in that last post about the Japanese Sigma.
I've only had one case in my life where a hotter woman than my current girlfriend offered me immediate sex in an attempt to monkey branch. I only passed that test due to a teenaged case of oneitis, and have no illusions that I'd have passed if she'd been hotter still. Maybe I'm a little more faithful than my options...but only a little. Guessing that's true of most of us.
As the mom of an Alpha son I wish I could give workshops to young women about how not to be put on waivers. If we still lived in a time of worthy matron matchmaking I probably could.
An Alpha wife gains the social capital of her husband by association. If she internalized that too closely she might start engaging in "prove-I'm-still-worthy" compliance tests just when she's reached the age of fading looks. Alphas always have options so if a girl makes it more painful to be with her than without her she'll find herself replaced. You-Go-Grrl-ism is just as destructive to Alpha wives as to the rest of womenfolk.
The most resourceful response to that surge of jealousy is to take a dispassionate, curious approach to it: "That's an interesting reaction."
Of course, it is much easier for me *say* that than it is for most people to *do* it, but it can be done. You can't control your thoughts and emotions, but you can control your focus.
I would imagine most alphas end up cheating in a long-enough relationship, but the mother of your children is the mother of your children. I think marrying young and inexperienced women helps too even if they are less attractive Having that initial attraction at a bonding-age locks in a pheremone reaction so that the woman will accept sex ritualistically and the boner will always show up. Sex should be habitual, though it's good to spice it up now and again. The biochemical reaction can short-circuit though if a woman denies sex: thought can enter into the picture and kill the magic.
I don't even like it when women flirt in such a way as to try and annoy you. Low end latinas especially are good at that stuff, as well as revenge.
A wife to an alpha seems to be the female equivalent of heavy lies the head that wears the crown. Everyone wants it, but few understand the burden. That being said, what would the wife of a sigma say?
Vox said he only ever dated very attractive girls. I wonder if it was due to high standards on Vox’s part, or because single girls under about 8 realize they’d be left heartbroken and kept a wall up, or a combination of both.
I don't think I ever went below a 7. I think it was partly high standards, partly an instinctive tendency toward delayed gratification, and partly the knowledge that I needed to be cautious about gold diggers due to my family.
His ex’s could distance themselves too. It’s not healthy to pine after a married man.
"Jealousy tends to kill that which it seeks most to protect".
In the words of Rollo Tomassi;
1.Envy: Something you don't have that others have.
2.Jealousy: Something you do have that others want.
The dictionary also says this. That man is amazing.
“Jealousy tends to kill that which it seeks most to protect.”
In other words, “don’t spoil yourself.” It is perfectly feasible for a woman who literally has her dream man to spoil the image he has of her by acting contemptuously and spitefully for no reason other than her own insecurities and self-doubts. It’s an interesting paradox: The less she tries to defend herself, the more secure she actually is.
I’d say the same goes for lower status men as well. If a guy tries desperately to defend his position or status in the eyes of a woman, then she’ll (correctly) interpret that as insecurity and fear and respond with contempt. For a man to prove himself in the eyes of a woman, he must refrain from doing exactly that. Instead he should focus on becoming the best version of himself that he possibly can be, and if that’s attractive or satisfying to her then she’ll let him know in one way or another.
Little rat dogs bark the most and loudest out of insecurity. The big dog doesn’t have to bark, everyone already knows he’s the big dog.
My tai chi teacher used to point out that seeming -- or worse being -- aggressive or defensive merely proves you are NOT the alpha, you were not dangerous, and you were likely prey. The dangerous man doesn't have to swagger and show it. And that's very attractive to security conscious women.
The lion, lying in the shade with his eyes half closed. NO other animal thinks he's not extremely dangerous. His absolute confidence allows him to be mild(-seeming) and not on guard.
Doubt men can fake this though... Get to the gym and the dojo.
The phrase 'fake it until you make it' has never been about pretending. That's rhetoric to do it without insulting someone weak. If you're interested in it, you will do it. And you will forget that it's hard work, as everything is hard work.
If you go to the gym or the dojo, you like the good feelings which come from it.
It was in the context of uncharitably simps and charitably male viewers and almost certainly majority low status males, but this teller saw this statement "Men are easy, just be nice to them"
He can always find another better hotter and so on, but can he find someone that fits like an old glove? Someone who makes sandwiches worth murdering for? A class ladylike act whose serenity will be beautiful even when age claws rivers in her face?
If you are mad and unstable, why he can find tons of hot crazy people, our societies are geared towards producing them. It certainly is dangerous to be nice to random men you don't know, but your SO? Please. The existence of women that get it condemn the rest, no wonder the absurd insult of 'pickme girl' exists. "Oh she's just pretending to treat you well, she's really bitter and mean like me on the inside"
Why can't you at least fake it then idiot?
Best practice those sandwich skills and smiles or set your sights a little lower.
You won't of course, lower your sight.
"Men are easy." Few truer words have eve been written. In the final analysis, most men just want a home. A woman who is a good cook, homemaker and potential mother is an absolute treasure. I'm surprised more low tier women don't understand this and leverage it. To do so would greatly enhance their prospects.
And don’t forget that yellow mustard and some kind of good chip on the side are essentials. Not Lays anymore though because of that Spain Bud-Light-esque marketing and the new chemical tastes.
"Hey diddle diddle,
The cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon.
The little dog laughed,
To see such fun,
And the dish ran away with the spoon."
'It should have been me', wept the knife.
'Whoever could stand your cutting remarks?' the fork dryly observed.
The place mat simply felt empty.
Every wise woman buildeth her house; But the foolish plucketh it down with her own hands.
Proverbs of Solomon
Build the sammich, save the house
It's one of the easiest insults against fat women. She will stay single until she learns how to make and give a sandwich to a man, without accidentally eating it herself.
I kinda wish I could like that comment more than once.
I miss the days in the 80s when most fat women at least convincingly faked a pleasant disposition. I guess they had to, the sexual marketplace wasn't overrun with obese or even overweight women. One of the kindest women I ever have known was the clearly overweight but not really obese mother of one of my friends when I was in my teenage years. She was also extremely respectful of her husband.