These detailed insights are really quite helpful in refining the SSH, and absolutely spot on. They can at times even shed insights into one's own internal mechanisms, which are not always something one focuses on when you are generally comfortable with them anyway. The series Dexter had similar little insights I found useful as well as intelligently entertaining. Perhaps as one gets older there is a slightly deeper interest in the psychology of humans, even if the vast majority of them are far from interesting, and fall into broad patterns of behaviour, more detailed and specific patterns are always useful to notice.
I love this! The fearless lone wolf approach style of the Sigma male. Sigma doesn't want help and doesn't really trust other people to help him anyway.
The other advantage Sigmas have in cold solo approaching groups of attractive women (something that would terrify most men) is a lack of caring what other people think. Alphas are high status, but they DO care what other people think. So they are a little more cautious in certain social situations. The Sigma's freedom from status anxiety lets him be bold. And fortune favors the bold.
Oh man. I bet the gammas will twist the "A Sigma knows what he wants and goes for it" into "I'm a Sigma because I know EXACTLY what sort of woman I'm into, it's just that I cannot find any specimen that's up to my standards so I just don't bother approaching anyone!"
Gamma shoots high and has to settle… Sigma isn’t particularly picky but the hot women elbow out their competition and choose him. Yet again, the two ranks are polar opposites.
You're totally wrong. The Sigma is high status and very picky. He always shoots high, although his particular preferences will vary. He might prefer Asians. He might prefer blondes. Or Goths. But whatever they are, they will be very attractive specimens of their type.
Are gammas and alphas similar in that they both desire to be the alpha, but different in that only the alpha is capable. While the sigma is capable but doesn’t have the desire? Or am I retarded?
With the Gamma the problem is not desiring a higher rank, it is a delusion that they are a higher rank. A Gamma may delude himself into thinking he is an Alpha, or a Bravo, or a Sigma.
Gamma with Alpha delusions: "I am definitely in charge here because nobody enjoys arguing with me!"
Gamma with Bravo delusions: "The big man likes me the best!"
Gamma with Sigma delusions: "If a 10 brushed my cheek, I would respond with an annoyed face frown."
A Delta or Omega might very well desire to be Alpha or Bravo or Sigma, but not delude himself into thinking he has achieved them when he hasn't.
There are some truly delusional omegas who think their extreme rageful tendencies actually make them high status. They think that smashing someone's head in = alpha male chad, not realizing emotional incontinence is effeminate and very unnattractive to everyone.
Darth Vader is a great example of an Omega with power. He sunk from Gamma to Omega on Mustafar, and became a powerful freak that nobody wanted to share a room with.
DV changed a lot in the prequels. In the original movies he was the ultimate Delta. Showed up to work on time, did the job without question no matter how tedious or brutal, wasn't big into the dating scene, hated whenever his competence was questioned, didn't question hierarchy either upwards or downwards and was once a decent good man.
Great example. It seems possible that a complete socio-sexual freak can achieve a kind of inverted ability to persuade others not through admiration or social prowess but pure terror. It is also possible that this prowess in threatening others will garner the admiration of some women. See the female fan clubs based around violent sociopathic criminals.
This seems most true when the causes of Omega are arrested development or immaturity and the person has managed to retain some level effective introspection. It is a great reframe though. Let the crucible of pain make you stronger.
I'm reasonably certain that EVERY Sigma will tell you that trying to be an Alpha sucks. There's an instinct to being an Alpha and Sigmas do not possess it.
Alpha: What do my people need? How can I help them?
Sigma: Who cares, I'm done with this, these people are crazy.
Is indifference to women compatible with any SSH profile other than omegas and lambdas? I would have imagined that some sigmas could have this trait, but the discussions on this Substack have undermined that idea. What do you make of monks like Saint Augustine who were celibate for decades?
I agree that Augustine was a gamma. I mentioned Augustine because he had been celibate for 40 years after conversion, but that was a poor example of the "indifference" I was trying to get at. Basil of Caesarea may be better. None of his writings that I've read suggest that he ever had an interest in women.
Wresting with sin is not indifference to sin. An alcoholic who never touches a bottle again is not indifferent to the alcohol.
Augustine: “Such was my sickness and my torture, as I accused myself even more bitterly than usual. I was twisting and turning in my chain until it would break completely. I was now only a little bit held by it, but I was still held. You, Lord, put pressure on me in my hidden depths with a severe mercy wielding the double whip of fear and shame, lest I should again succumb, and lest that tiny and tenuous bond which still remained should not be broken, but once more regain strength and bind me even more firmly.”
It even mentions in the bible that men who are truly completely free of the desire for a woman, wife and family are exceedingly rare. You can find examples of these sorts of men today but most are case studies for textbooks because of how utterly strange it is.
I agree. Augustine was not a good example. There are other celibate saints who did not display such a great weakness to the female sex, who would serve as better case studies.
Look at his debates with Pelagius. He was so desperate to prove Pelagius wrong that he readopted Manichean thought and incorporated it into his theology. Manicheanism was a false religion that Augustine was interested in before he got saved. John Calvin read these works and created Calvinism from it. That illustrates how far Augustine departed from orthodox Catholicism, just to "prove" somebody else wrong.
Look, I don't mean to enter into a theological debate here, nothing good would come out of it...but these are some pretty serious claims being made against a Father of the Church. Augustine won that debate; his views on the matter ended up being adopted by the Church, not Pelagius'.
I agree that we shouldn't go further off-topic, so let's end the discussion on Pelagius here. But being a gamma doesn't mean that you're evil; it just means that you have a specific set of flaws that happen to be common in a good number of men. Many high-achievers and good people have been gamma males.
Noticing Augustine as a Gamma is not saying he is unworthy of sainthood. He was a sinner. He has particular weaknesses. But he is still an authority worth listening to.
I would hesitate to call most of the gamma male's defining traits "sinful" at all. Is it sinful to be "introspective...unusual...unattractive", as Vox describes gamma males? It's just that the gamma male's problems, which seem to be rooted in something like neuroticism, can often get out of control.
That is sexual discipline. It does not determine SSH rank. The Roman Catholic hierarchy is ideally all celibate men, and they have always had Alphas, Bravos, Deltas, and Gammas.
Pope St. Pius X, for example, was an Alpha and celibate.
I agree. My example wasn't the best because monastic and priestly celibacy is a choice. But still, is indifference to women compatible with any rank outside of lambda and omega?
Indifference is different than having no desire. Alphas and sigmas display that trait to certain degrees. They can have any woman they want, or don't want. That is what indifference means to them.
“Indifference” can also mean the polar opposite of one-itis — indifference to rejection by a given woman. I’m not exactly sure what Enwar is implying, though.
I'm asking about men who simply do not care enough about women or relationships to pursue them, or to try to. Not those who are afraid to, but those who don't do it because they don't value it enough to. Nicola Tesla comes to mind immediately.
Yeah, the degree to which you hesitate is usually one of the better gauges of where you are, General rule:
Alpha: calls girl over or just approaches and tells friend he’ll be a minute, if you write down the conversation they have it looks like a pretty mundane conversation but the alpha mainly flirts with his voice and eyes, he will be penetrating her with his eyes and talking in a “pillow talk” voice. He won’t even be gauging her during the convo because in his mind there’s nothing to lose by shooting your shot. If eventually does say something overtly flirtatious it will be a very bold “gimme a kiss on the cheek before I go” type move. The woman will be grinning and possibly be a bit embarrassed at times.
Sigma: similarly bold approach to the alpha but more Conan than Charmer. Similar to the Alpha most of the conversation will actually appear pretty normal and the sigma will mostly flirt with his body language. Though with him this is more likely to take the form of getting very close to her while talking. The alpha looks at her like dessert, the sigma looks at her like steak. More likely to look for choosing signals before approaching than an alpha in the interest of “not wasting time” but wont be actively gauging her during the conversation. If he makes a “bold move” during the conversation it’s likely to be more “you wanna fuck?” Than anything the alpha would do. During the interaction the woman may seem slightly confused but also intrigued
Bravo: the biggest difference between the bravo’s approach and the sigma/alpha approach is that if you were to write down what was said, it will read like flirting. Usually done in a “playful” kind of way. If a man says something to a woman like “man, that looks almost as pretty as you do” and her response is to smile and roll her eyes as if to say “this fool”. This guy is probably a bravo. Usually the line will be delivered as though he is aware that it’s cheesy and that’s the joke. Bravos will usually look for indicators of interest both before and during the conversation. Much more likely to gracefully abandon ship mid approach because the girl doesn’t seem into him than an alpha or a sigma.
Delta: approach will have a “hey uh, I think you’re very pretty and I was just wondering if…” vibe. Like he’s “just trying to put himself out there”. Will often miss “choosing signals” to the point that a bravo or alpha friend has to tell him “dude, she likes you.” Most likely to earn the criticism of being “too boring” in his approach. If it goes well there will be a hint of surprise, if it goes badly he may seem embarrassed for a bit but will take it on the chin. Bravo and up aren’t surprised that women like them, Delta and under are. There’s a chance the delta may abandon ship out of nervousness when there was no indication it was going badly. If the woman is particularly empathetic she may find it “cute” that he went for it even though he was nervous, but not cute in a romantic way.
Gamma: “approach” looks a lot more like bothering her. If you are in a social group and a male member is very clearly interested in a woman and his way of communicating that is to strike up conversation with her every day in hopes that she takes initiative this man is at the very least acting like a gamma. The woman will find this considerably irritating because she knows he’s trying to work up the courage to ask her out but instead tries to play this buddy buddy role. In some cases he may eventually approach her doing what he thinks an alpha might do only to be shot down in a rather bitchy way.
Omega: doesn’t approach women.
I think the only description that may warrant some improvement is sigma.
As Gammas often mistake Sigmas for other Gammas at first, it wouldn’t surprise me if a woman may assume a Sigma stranger she doesn’t know at all is a Gamma at first too, especially if she’s been hit on by Gammas a lot before. Crucially, though, the Sigma has that supreme confidence and nonchalance that can’t be faked.
Put another way, Sigma approaches may start off awkward and end up going well, whereas Delta or Gamma approaches may start off well but become awkward, with the Gamma doubling down on failure.
I don't think the gamma confused the sigma for a gamma; I think he was trying to compare himself to the sigma because he thought he was "cool". If anything, he may have confused himself, a gamma, for a sigma rather than the other way around.
Totally incorrect. Women never, ever, react to Sigmas like Gammas. They usually pick up that they aren't Alphas, but they are intrigued because they still find them just as attractive.
What I said about Sigmas would also apply to Alphas. But we do live in an inverted, liberal feminist PoundMeToo society, on top of which is heavy use of the Pill, which screws up the type of men that the women on it desire.
I mean, consider Trump Derangement Syndrome. Do women who vote Democrat hate Trump because they're Alpha widows, or because they're on the Pill, or because they've been propagandized to hate Alphas. or because they've been disappointed by a lot of Gamma and Delta extroverts that come off as Alpha at first?
Regardless, the Alpha and Sigma would both be able to cut through shit tests and surprise women on the upside. The question is, will the women surrender, or are they brainwashed enough to double down and shit test harder, like black women typically do (according to Donovan Sharpe)?
You simply don't understand how it works for high-status men. There are no shit tests of either Alphas or Sigmas. Those come later, if there is a relationship.
An attractive woman is more likely to walk up to a Sigma and kiss him on the mouth before introducing herself than she is to try shit-testing him in any way.
Not exactly… women routinely mistake certain extroverted, more socially adept Deltas or Gammas for higher-ranked men at first, then get turned off. I’ve seen it happen a lot. Which would be like mistaking a 4 for a 9.
If women could tell men’s ranks on sight like we can with them, shit tests wouldn’t exist.
Which is why I say internet sites / apps are a lose/lose, especially for men. Gives women attention and validation while hiding the flaws of both sexes.
Plus, I had a fun internet long-distance thing fizzle when we met in person. Total waste of time and energy. Why bother? You have to eventually learn to deal with females in person, move that timeline up.
Agreed that you still have to get over the hump of meeting in person and ideally do that ASAP. It’s just that she hasn’t seen you gazing from afar for a month before the initial approach.
Putting my female superpower to practice (yesterdays post ). I want to commend you for your boldness (you probably suspected this would not be popular). Reminding people that trashy behavior is sin might not be wanted here, but its refreshing to see saltiness --- ha, you just might have to take the salt shaker elsewhere.
Do you guys really think it's in a Sigmas nature to make vulgar advances like that? I'm not pretending to be one myself here, but to me that sounds more like a porn inspired fantasy than genuinely hight status behavior.
I think hight status men can get away with such behaviour to a certain extent, but framing it as "it works" - as if it's that line that makes the woman want him - doesn't sound right to me.
It's more of an honest and direct expression of interest than a vulgar comment. Women speak in hints and insinuations; masculine men are much more direct and to the point, and it's attractive to women when a man is direct (especially about his interest) come what may. Obviously read the room first, but if things are going very well with a woman, you can literally look at her and say, "look, I find you wildly attractive and want to fuck you." It might end well it might not, but at least you were decisive and not squirmy/indecisive.
Women do the same thing, just less direct. If a girl is ogling you and squeezing your arm and asks you "Where are you staying?" what she's really asking is "Where are WE staying?"
Which to me implies that you would say this to women if you could. I don't understand why you would want to be this vulgar, or want the kind of woman that would respond well to it.
In the event ——> that he——-does this ———> it’s because he can
Your conclusion from that was that I would if I could. Do you see how your need to virtue signal has caused you to flunk basic reading comprehension. This isn’t about ethics, it’s about behavior patterns
Of course, it's socio-SEXUAL hierarchy. People who deceive themselves to be Sigmas tend to focus on the social aspect, which is easy to bend and distort. The sexual aspect, not so much, because it's way more objective: do you regularly date 8s, 9s and 10s, or not?!
It's pretty easy to rationalize the sexual aspect as well. "I have really high standards, and none of these women are good enough" is a common one. Or "Its better to let them come to you".
"Do men regularly look to you for leadership?" I think is actually a harder question to answer for a gamma. Of course, they manage to do both regardless.
The more I learn about Sigmas, the more it seems it would be hard to self-identify as one by accident. The lone wolf metaphor is helpful. Do you think Sigmas are more likely to remain single because a relationship would be extra hassle or is their purposeful drive make it where they don't get as caught up in typical relationship quibbles because they simply aren't paying attention? The more I delve into SSH the less likely I am to overlay a high status designation onto someone I've known just to make it fit into my understanding. I am much more likely to assume delta or gamma absent strong displays of alpha/bravo characteristics.
My sigma friend, going through a divorce, still dates.
His female friends, who never made a move before, came out of the woodwork, upon learning of his separation.
So while technically single, he's really spinning plates. He has always been like that. And based on how women behave around him, this seems typical sigma behavior.
Yeah, I think the dichotomy of alpha and beta has people's perspective warped. That and the good Ole dunning Kruger effect. Too many people saying they're alphas.
These detailed insights are really quite helpful in refining the SSH, and absolutely spot on. They can at times even shed insights into one's own internal mechanisms, which are not always something one focuses on when you are generally comfortable with them anyway. The series Dexter had similar little insights I found useful as well as intelligently entertaining. Perhaps as one gets older there is a slightly deeper interest in the psychology of humans, even if the vast majority of them are far from interesting, and fall into broad patterns of behaviour, more detailed and specific patterns are always useful to notice.
I love this! The fearless lone wolf approach style of the Sigma male. Sigma doesn't want help and doesn't really trust other people to help him anyway.
The other advantage Sigmas have in cold solo approaching groups of attractive women (something that would terrify most men) is a lack of caring what other people think. Alphas are high status, but they DO care what other people think. So they are a little more cautious in certain social situations. The Sigma's freedom from status anxiety lets him be bold. And fortune favors the bold.
One would assume this is enough for the Sigma-wannabe-Gammas to separate the grain from the chaff.
We all know this is not going to happen.
Team dynamics among men are different to group dynamics with women. So the male SSH does not apply.I
Thus is going to be a gamma honeypot
Oh man. I bet the gammas will twist the "A Sigma knows what he wants and goes for it" into "I'm a Sigma because I know EXACTLY what sort of woman I'm into, it's just that I cannot find any specimen that's up to my standards so I just don't bother approaching anyone!"
Gamma shoots high and has to settle… Sigma isn’t particularly picky but the hot women elbow out their competition and choose him. Yet again, the two ranks are polar opposites.
You're totally wrong. The Sigma is high status and very picky. He always shoots high, although his particular preferences will vary. He might prefer Asians. He might prefer blondes. Or Goths. But whatever they are, they will be very attractive specimens of their type.
A man who isn't picky is either drunk, heartbroken or low status.
If the sigma is an alpha without attachment to his team, then he is as indifferent to all of the women who want him to be loyal to her.
Don’t confuse attachment with competency. Gammas are attached to women they do not have. And sigmas have women they aren’t with.
Fortune favors the bold indeed.
Are gammas and alphas similar in that they both desire to be the alpha, but different in that only the alpha is capable. While the sigma is capable but doesn’t have the desire? Or am I retarded?
It's a decent summary.
Alpha - Alpha goods, wants to be Alpha.
Gamma - lacks Alpha goods, wants to be Alpha.
Sigma - Alpha goods, does not want to be Alpha.
With the Gamma the problem is not desiring a higher rank, it is a delusion that they are a higher rank. A Gamma may delude himself into thinking he is an Alpha, or a Bravo, or a Sigma.
Gamma with Alpha delusions: "I am definitely in charge here because nobody enjoys arguing with me!"
Gamma with Bravo delusions: "The big man likes me the best!"
Gamma with Sigma delusions: "If a 10 brushed my cheek, I would respond with an annoyed face frown."
A Delta or Omega might very well desire to be Alpha or Bravo or Sigma, but not delude himself into thinking he has achieved them when he hasn't.
There are some truly delusional omegas who think their extreme rageful tendencies actually make them high status. They think that smashing someone's head in = alpha male chad, not realizing emotional incontinence is effeminate and very unnattractive to everyone.
Darth Vader is a great example of an Omega with power. He sunk from Gamma to Omega on Mustafar, and became a powerful freak that nobody wanted to share a room with.
DV changed a lot in the prequels. In the original movies he was the ultimate Delta. Showed up to work on time, did the job without question no matter how tedious or brutal, wasn't big into the dating scene, hated whenever his competence was questioned, didn't question hierarchy either upwards or downwards and was once a decent good man.
Eh, he spent the Clone Wars successfully leading troopers.
Marriage with the princess/senator has weirdness, but is generally a high rank move.
Effectively leads forces to destroy the Jedi order after becoming second in command to the Sith emperor.
High rank with Gamma/Omega flaws is a more accurate descriptor than low rank Gamma/Omega.
I'd go with Bravo, because he spent his military career as Obiwan's second before switching to be the emperor's right-hand man.
Great example. It seems possible that a complete socio-sexual freak can achieve a kind of inverted ability to persuade others not through admiration or social prowess but pure terror. It is also possible that this prowess in threatening others will garner the admiration of some women. See the female fan clubs based around violent sociopathic criminals.
Omegas may have greater potential than Gammas, since Omegas are not hierarchy obsessed.
I am starting to look back on my past Omega traits not as shameful, but as true potential that I am now beginning to realize fully.
This seems most true when the causes of Omega are arrested development or immaturity and the person has managed to retain some level effective introspection. It is a great reframe though. Let the crucible of pain make you stronger.
I would slaughter an entire African village for 1% of that power
Basically.
Gamma is Alpha ambition without the Alpha goods.
Sigma is Alpha goods without the Alpha ambition. (As in, ambition in the same way Alphas have it.)
I'm reasonably certain that EVERY Sigma will tell you that trying to be an Alpha sucks. There's an instinct to being an Alpha and Sigmas do not possess it.
Alpha: What do my people need? How can I help them?
Sigma: Who cares, I'm done with this, these people are crazy.
Gamma comedians never work the room.
Is indifference to women compatible with any SSH profile other than omegas and lambdas? I would have imagined that some sigmas could have this trait, but the discussions on this Substack have undermined that idea. What do you make of monks like Saint Augustine who were celibate for decades?
You have clearly never read St. Augustine. He was definitely a Gamma. And he wasn't celibate initially.
I agree that Augustine was a gamma. I mentioned Augustine because he had been celibate for 40 years after conversion, but that was a poor example of the "indifference" I was trying to get at. Basil of Caesarea may be better. None of his writings that I've read suggest that he ever had an interest in women.
Wresting with sin is not indifference to sin. An alcoholic who never touches a bottle again is not indifferent to the alcohol.
Augustine: “Such was my sickness and my torture, as I accused myself even more bitterly than usual. I was twisting and turning in my chain until it would break completely. I was now only a little bit held by it, but I was still held. You, Lord, put pressure on me in my hidden depths with a severe mercy wielding the double whip of fear and shame, lest I should again succumb, and lest that tiny and tenuous bond which still remained should not be broken, but once more regain strength and bind me even more firmly.”
It even mentions in the bible that men who are truly completely free of the desire for a woman, wife and family are exceedingly rare. You can find examples of these sorts of men today but most are case studies for textbooks because of how utterly strange it is.
I agree. Augustine was not a good example. There are other celibate saints who did not display such a great weakness to the female sex, who would serve as better case studies.
St. Justin Martyr also writes like a high SSH man.
He doesn't appear to have had any strong interest in women either.
St. Augustine a gamma...? Why?
Read Augustine and Jerome's letters to each other. Gamma rage fest. Kind of funny if you enjoy that sort of thing too.
Look at his debates with Pelagius. He was so desperate to prove Pelagius wrong that he readopted Manichean thought and incorporated it into his theology. Manicheanism was a false religion that Augustine was interested in before he got saved. John Calvin read these works and created Calvinism from it. That illustrates how far Augustine departed from orthodox Catholicism, just to "prove" somebody else wrong.
Look, I don't mean to enter into a theological debate here, nothing good would come out of it...but these are some pretty serious claims being made against a Father of the Church. Augustine won that debate; his views on the matter ended up being adopted by the Church, not Pelagius'.
I agree that we shouldn't go further off-topic, so let's end the discussion on Pelagius here. But being a gamma doesn't mean that you're evil; it just means that you have a specific set of flaws that happen to be common in a good number of men. Many high-achievers and good people have been gamma males.
Noticing Augustine as a Gamma is not saying he is unworthy of sainthood. He was a sinner. He has particular weaknesses. But he is still an authority worth listening to.
Even Gammas can get to heaven.
I would hesitate to call most of the gamma male's defining traits "sinful" at all. Is it sinful to be "introspective...unusual...unattractive", as Vox describes gamma males? It's just that the gamma male's problems, which seem to be rooted in something like neuroticism, can often get out of control.
You mean "outcome independence".
That is sexual discipline. It does not determine SSH rank. The Roman Catholic hierarchy is ideally all celibate men, and they have always had Alphas, Bravos, Deltas, and Gammas.
Pope St. Pius X, for example, was an Alpha and celibate.
I agree. My example wasn't the best because monastic and priestly celibacy is a choice. But still, is indifference to women compatible with any rank outside of lambda and omega?
Indifference is different than having no desire. Alphas and sigmas display that trait to certain degrees. They can have any woman they want, or don't want. That is what indifference means to them.
“Indifference” can also mean the polar opposite of one-itis — indifference to rejection by a given woman. I’m not exactly sure what Enwar is implying, though.
I'm asking about men who simply do not care enough about women or relationships to pursue them, or to try to. Not those who are afraid to, but those who don't do it because they don't value it enough to. Nicola Tesla comes to mind immediately.
Omega.
That’s a kind of Omega, I’m reasonably sure.
Yeah, the degree to which you hesitate is usually one of the better gauges of where you are, General rule:
Alpha: calls girl over or just approaches and tells friend he’ll be a minute, if you write down the conversation they have it looks like a pretty mundane conversation but the alpha mainly flirts with his voice and eyes, he will be penetrating her with his eyes and talking in a “pillow talk” voice. He won’t even be gauging her during the convo because in his mind there’s nothing to lose by shooting your shot. If eventually does say something overtly flirtatious it will be a very bold “gimme a kiss on the cheek before I go” type move. The woman will be grinning and possibly be a bit embarrassed at times.
Sigma: similarly bold approach to the alpha but more Conan than Charmer. Similar to the Alpha most of the conversation will actually appear pretty normal and the sigma will mostly flirt with his body language. Though with him this is more likely to take the form of getting very close to her while talking. The alpha looks at her like dessert, the sigma looks at her like steak. More likely to look for choosing signals before approaching than an alpha in the interest of “not wasting time” but wont be actively gauging her during the conversation. If he makes a “bold move” during the conversation it’s likely to be more “you wanna fuck?” Than anything the alpha would do. During the interaction the woman may seem slightly confused but also intrigued
Bravo: the biggest difference between the bravo’s approach and the sigma/alpha approach is that if you were to write down what was said, it will read like flirting. Usually done in a “playful” kind of way. If a man says something to a woman like “man, that looks almost as pretty as you do” and her response is to smile and roll her eyes as if to say “this fool”. This guy is probably a bravo. Usually the line will be delivered as though he is aware that it’s cheesy and that’s the joke. Bravos will usually look for indicators of interest both before and during the conversation. Much more likely to gracefully abandon ship mid approach because the girl doesn’t seem into him than an alpha or a sigma.
Delta: approach will have a “hey uh, I think you’re very pretty and I was just wondering if…” vibe. Like he’s “just trying to put himself out there”. Will often miss “choosing signals” to the point that a bravo or alpha friend has to tell him “dude, she likes you.” Most likely to earn the criticism of being “too boring” in his approach. If it goes well there will be a hint of surprise, if it goes badly he may seem embarrassed for a bit but will take it on the chin. Bravo and up aren’t surprised that women like them, Delta and under are. There’s a chance the delta may abandon ship out of nervousness when there was no indication it was going badly. If the woman is particularly empathetic she may find it “cute” that he went for it even though he was nervous, but not cute in a romantic way.
Gamma: “approach” looks a lot more like bothering her. If you are in a social group and a male member is very clearly interested in a woman and his way of communicating that is to strike up conversation with her every day in hopes that she takes initiative this man is at the very least acting like a gamma. The woman will find this considerably irritating because she knows he’s trying to work up the courage to ask her out but instead tries to play this buddy buddy role. In some cases he may eventually approach her doing what he thinks an alpha might do only to be shot down in a rather bitchy way.
Omega: doesn’t approach women.
I think the only description that may warrant some improvement is sigma.
As Gammas often mistake Sigmas for other Gammas at first, it wouldn’t surprise me if a woman may assume a Sigma stranger she doesn’t know at all is a Gamma at first too, especially if she’s been hit on by Gammas a lot before. Crucially, though, the Sigma has that supreme confidence and nonchalance that can’t be faked.
Put another way, Sigma approaches may start off awkward and end up going well, whereas Delta or Gamma approaches may start off well but become awkward, with the Gamma doubling down on failure.
How did you come to the conclusion that gammas mistake sigmas for other gammas?
https://sigmagame.substack.com/p/a-lot-alike
I don't think the gamma confused the sigma for a gamma; I think he was trying to compare himself to the sigma because he thought he was "cool". If anything, he may have confused himself, a gamma, for a sigma rather than the other way around.
That actually makes a lot of sense.
Totally incorrect. Women never, ever, react to Sigmas like Gammas. They usually pick up that they aren't Alphas, but they are intrigued because they still find them just as attractive.
Sigmas will most likely be mistaken for alpha. As far as awkwardness I think a lot of it has to do with how often you talk to people.
What I said about Sigmas would also apply to Alphas. But we do live in an inverted, liberal feminist PoundMeToo society, on top of which is heavy use of the Pill, which screws up the type of men that the women on it desire.
I mean, consider Trump Derangement Syndrome. Do women who vote Democrat hate Trump because they're Alpha widows, or because they're on the Pill, or because they've been propagandized to hate Alphas. or because they've been disappointed by a lot of Gamma and Delta extroverts that come off as Alpha at first?
Regardless, the Alpha and Sigma would both be able to cut through shit tests and surprise women on the upside. The question is, will the women surrender, or are they brainwashed enough to double down and shit test harder, like black women typically do (according to Donovan Sharpe)?
You simply don't understand how it works for high-status men. There are no shit tests of either Alphas or Sigmas. Those come later, if there is a relationship.
An attractive woman is more likely to walk up to a Sigma and kiss him on the mouth before introducing herself than she is to try shit-testing him in any way.
That's like saying a man would mistake a 9 for a 4, because he gets hit on by 4s a lot
Not exactly… women routinely mistake certain extroverted, more socially adept Deltas or Gammas for higher-ranked men at first, then get turned off. I’ve seen it happen a lot. Which would be like mistaking a 4 for a 9.
If women could tell men’s ranks on sight like we can with them, shit tests wouldn’t exist.
Women err in one direction. They will give a low-status guy the benefit of the doubt. They do not underrate high-status men.
“The woman will find this considerably irritating because she knows he’s trying to work up the courage to ask her out”
Indeed… indeed.
Internet helps with that. She doesn’t see you spending a month working up the courage.
Of course, if once you’re on a date you act like Doof, nothing’s going to help you.
Which is why I say internet sites / apps are a lose/lose, especially for men. Gives women attention and validation while hiding the flaws of both sexes.
Plus, I had a fun internet long-distance thing fizzle when we met in person. Total waste of time and energy. Why bother? You have to eventually learn to deal with females in person, move that timeline up.
Agreed that you still have to get over the hump of meeting in person and ideally do that ASAP. It’s just that she hasn’t seen you gazing from afar for a month before the initial approach.
It’s the quoted dialog that raises this to performance art.
If you don't already know, you'd probably be shocked at how effective "I want to fuck you" can be.
This is sin.
Putting my female superpower to practice (yesterdays post ). I want to commend you for your boldness (you probably suspected this would not be popular). Reminding people that trashy behavior is sin might not be wanted here, but its refreshing to see saltiness --- ha, you just might have to take the salt shaker elsewhere.
Irrelevant. This is not the place for you if you want to play Morality Police.
Remember, it's just Socio-sexual, not moral-immoral hierarchy. There's a difference.
So is cowardice.
Yes it is.
Do you guys really think it's in a Sigmas nature to make vulgar advances like that? I'm not pretending to be one myself here, but to me that sounds more like a porn inspired fantasy than genuinely hight status behavior.
I think hight status men can get away with such behaviour to a certain extent, but framing it as "it works" - as if it's that line that makes the woman want him - doesn't sound right to me.
Yes. Absolutely. Although the women are more likely to lead with that sort of thing on their approach to him.
Sigma Hunter Biden would because, like a honey badger, he don’t care.
It's more of an honest and direct expression of interest than a vulgar comment. Women speak in hints and insinuations; masculine men are much more direct and to the point, and it's attractive to women when a man is direct (especially about his interest) come what may. Obviously read the room first, but if things are going very well with a woman, you can literally look at her and say, "look, I find you wildly attractive and want to fuck you." It might end well it might not, but at least you were decisive and not squirmy/indecisive.
Women do the same thing, just less direct. If a girl is ogling you and squeezing your arm and asks you "Where are you staying?" what she's really asking is "Where are WE staying?"
"Can I kiss you" is also effective without being vulgar or immoral. I have tried it, in public, successfully.
I agree with being direct, but being direct and being vulgar are not the same thing.
Vulgarity is a subset of being direct. It turns off some women. It turns on others.
Vulgarity is a personal choice. You will find it in all ranks of the SSH, as well as plain language.
My sigma father used to bring his girlfriends by the house when my mother was home. He didn't care that this upset her.
Im not necessarily saying it “makes them want him”. In the event that he does this it would be because he can.
Which to me implies that you would say this to women if you could. I don't understand why you would want to be this vulgar, or want the kind of woman that would respond well to it.
In the event ——> that he——-does this ———> it’s because he can
Your conclusion from that was that I would if I could. Do you see how your need to virtue signal has caused you to flunk basic reading comprehension. This isn’t about ethics, it’s about behavior patterns
Clodhopper knows whats up.
Some of these are things I've actually heard people say in similar situations but I get how it can sound that way.
Why would he want them to join his friends instead of him just joining them?
Why would he want to abandon his friends instead of bring the girls along?
Nothing demonstrates high status like being able to pick up pretty girls for the benefit of others.
Vox was using a personal anecdote here that he has spoken about before.
"The man who hesitates in his choosing will inevitably have his decision made for him by circumstance."
- Hunter S. Thompson
"It's never the wrong time to do the right thing."
Of course, it's socio-SEXUAL hierarchy. People who deceive themselves to be Sigmas tend to focus on the social aspect, which is easy to bend and distort. The sexual aspect, not so much, because it's way more objective: do you regularly date 8s, 9s and 10s, or not?!
It's pretty easy to rationalize the sexual aspect as well. "I have really high standards, and none of these women are good enough" is a common one. Or "Its better to let them come to you".
"Do men regularly look to you for leadership?" I think is actually a harder question to answer for a gamma. Of course, they manage to do both regardless.
Men who say that mean one of two things: that the women who do show interest in him aren't up to his standards. Or that he's into guys.
If you don't find any women up to your standards than you aren't high status.
I think, "Do other men like you?" is another important question in determining socio-sexual status.
Yes. Sigma is an objectively defined level of success. It is not a feeling.
The more I learn about Sigmas, the more it seems it would be hard to self-identify as one by accident. The lone wolf metaphor is helpful. Do you think Sigmas are more likely to remain single because a relationship would be extra hassle or is their purposeful drive make it where they don't get as caught up in typical relationship quibbles because they simply aren't paying attention? The more I delve into SSH the less likely I am to overlay a high status designation onto someone I've known just to make it fit into my understanding. I am much more likely to assume delta or gamma absent strong displays of alpha/bravo characteristics.
My sigma friend, going through a divorce, still dates.
His female friends, who never made a move before, came out of the woodwork, upon learning of his separation.
So while technically single, he's really spinning plates. He has always been like that. And based on how women behave around him, this seems typical sigma behavior.
I don't think gammas are that common.
You are mistaken, they are quite common. Just troll some Internet forums.
I have never experienced a dearth of gammas.
What's your line of work?
I've jumped a few times. Corrections than education than finance.
Maybe they like office work?
Explain.
That depends.
I have an Alpha role in the arts/ media industry and let me tell you: I have never seen a shortage of Gammas.
I take it is a gamma magnet, no?
Yes. My specific industry is not quite as Gamma infested as other branches of the arts industry, but it is quite noticeable.
My guess is that arts is very self centered, very neurotic, with people who want to "express themselves".
Statistics are certainly on your side as the deltas and gammas form the base of the pyramid.
Yeah, I think the dichotomy of alpha and beta has people's perspective warped. That and the good Ole dunning Kruger effect. Too many people saying they're alphas.
Sigmas are more likely to be happy to remain single.
From my experience, sigmas spin plates, even if they're technically single.
My sigma friend going through a divorce, women came out of the woodwork upon learning of his separation.
Happy to remain single probably isn't right. More happy being alone.
That tracks, I suspect they would be the least affected about social pressure. Thank you
Well, them and Omegas. Don't forget the omegas!
Everyone does, but no one should. Good call
Oh man, time to start the popcorn! And I haven't even made my coffee yet 🙃
Sadly the gammas didn't show up today.
Come on, isn't there ANYONE who is too good for the hot blonde ponytailed tennis star because she is 2/10 would not bang while you're in the zone?
This made me smile. *rustles grain bucket* here, gammagammagamma haha
That would be a fun side post, "Titles of Substacks to attract gammas"
"I am Sigma, hear me roar!"