As a sigma who's been forced by circumstance into a few leadership positions (and failed utterly to actually hold the hierarchy together beyond the most structured, goal-oriented activities), I've come to realize there are some severe downsides to the natural sigma detachment. Other people just can't relate and find it off-putting, assuming it's some kind of tough guy facade and often becoming intimidated or resentful as a result. Vox (or anyone else with insight on the matter) - what advice would you give a sigma when obligated by circumstance to take up a leadership role in a hierarchy? While not something I generally care about, they are incredibly useful for getting things done (not to mention getting laid) if you're at the top and willing to dedicate the time to maintaining your position. Is this even worth attempting?
(grunch) Already 186 comments and it is 11:38am Eastern time. Quick HTML view-source on my phone, and looks this was posted, maybe just 1** hour ago, really? If so, this must be a new record for comments -- and worries me how many sperg threads have already been shared...
** oops, date was yesterday. But still, 25 hours and this many replies, quite the reaction this blog triggered.
Rust Cohle from True Detective Season 1 comes to mind - loathed by his colleagues, prefers to work alone, cold, disconnected, one day just walks out & disappears.
In fiction, maybe Jon Shannow from David Gemmell's Jerusalem Man trilogy.
I'd see Marty as a classic Delta, a good team man, very solid (albeit a lying cheater with women). Good counterpart to Rust, they balance each other out.
Thank you for this post and all the comments. It took a while for this "epiphany" but overlaying normal expectations onto a Sigma is certainly part of the problem. If you don't know about Sigmas and don't know the archetype then you expect Alpha. Hallucinatory expectations that are violated are a serous disappointment. I don't expect unicorns and lolly pops from seeing people as they are, but reality is far better for all concerned.
Worked with one for sure sigma. Came in, changed a process, threatened the status of a lot of leadership, and then was forced out by what I now see as a gamma in leadership. He honestly laughed when he was fired.
I was an individual contributor at the time, so more of a spectator to the game. But what I remember most about him was that he would just say "I want this. Figure it out!" And then LET ME GO DO IT!
He has bounced through a lot of different roles since, and I am not sure what he is doing now.
i don't fit the physical description of Sigma as ive been fat for a long time now, but i do often use the joke "everytime i leave a job an angel is born".
As a consultant I am regularly put in the position where a degree of Sigma detactment is required. Ultimately they are paying for my services so it's on them if they waste my time.
In the end I'm not going to be there.
As a delta this mindset does not come naturally and I really miss being part of a hierarchy.
The more I read about the Sigma, the more I am convinced I have only met one that was clearly identifiable. I am sure there have been others, but with insufficient interaction to be memorable.
Mistaken for alphas, as the rule goes...
This leads me to believe that identifying a sigma more or less requires sufficient interaction, and observing their behavior under certain social or workplace stresses where the alpha and sigma respond differently. I suppose these could be positive "stresses" as well; for example, I'll guess that a Sigma will respond to compliments and praise very different than an alpha.
My suspicion is that the Sigma is more resistant (if not totally immune) than the Alpha to kiss-ups, flattery, manipulation, etc. If this impression is true, that alone is a reason that the hive will not like them. They want to know that standard tools and tactics will work. The alpha may see right through these tactics, but I am guessing is willing to play along to achieve his goals. And who knows - maybe dumber alphas fall for it.
A good point, a very easy way to distinguish a Sigma from an Alpha is flattery. Alphas will lap it up, Sigmas will immediately become suspicious if not out right hostile.
Having worked across borders in Europe, UK, and the USA, I found for instance, Brits tend to think any praise is not genuine - but is secretly appreciated if it's fair; you should never praise a German for a job well done as he will rest on his laurels; Meds you have to praise before you ask them to do something; and most Americans will eat out of your hand after praising them for a job well done. Which is where, I imagine, the sigma sticks out in this respect culturally.
That is very informative - I hadn't considered cultural differences in that regard. I guess then I'm a secret Brit instead of a secret sigma! Praise always seems weird to me and I just want it over with. Oddly, I don't mind giving it.
Based on the description this doesn't sound like a female workplace, but the back-biting, gossipy drama, and he-hurt-my-feelings complaining, all at the expense of the mission objectives, comes off as scarily close to one.
Really appreciated this one. Helped me make sense of a few things.
Nothing better than the feeling of getting fired. All of a sudden the vague forecasts of the status game turn into the stark contrast of finances and opportunities. At the same time, I'm not going to pretend that it isn't hurtful to suddenly get kicked out when you've poured a lot of energy into mastering a job (getting top sales, becoming the trainer for new people). But this helped me realize how ridiculous it is to be upset about it.
What am I actually upset about? The hope that - hey, if I get top sales/demonstrate expertise/whatever benchmark, then maybe management will fuck off with the pointless busy work during slow hours, and HR will realize I have no interest in fucking women I work with. The hope that I can just vibe and chill, make a bunch of money and do my thing. But that day's never coming, is it?
And likewise, not much I can do to avoid pissing off somebody in the organization, aside from being the temp guy problem solver.
Besides skunkworks and independent projects, are there any other ways to recruit and keep high-performing Sigmas in an organization?
On a related note, does a Sigma in charge of an organization like skunkworks appreciate having someone else handle “people stuff” like salary raises, employee recognition, etc, so that he can just focus on the mission? Or is that seen as interfering?
The research labs would like to have a bunch of Sigmas, too. But there are never enough to keep the shop busy. So gammas and women always sneak in. To wit universities.
You can be in a business relying on expert contractors for all revenue tasks, keeping all employees in the back office. That will improve your Sigma odds. But your company will never get big.
The SSH has been great for identifying what happened to super talents that got ejected. I realized that Jim Shooter, greatest editor Marvel comics ever had, was a 6'7" sigma. He was brought on for the desperate mission to save Marvel, accomplished it AND made sure comics were all published on time, then was ejected and maligned forevermore. For seemingly no reason.
Here's his 1984 memo to the primadonna staff of Marvel:
"Effective immediately start doing good comics. I realize that this directive reflects a substantial departure from previous company policy, but please try to comply."
Here's how it ended:
"Despite his success in revitalizing Marvel, Shooter angered and alienated a number of long-time Marvel creators by insisting on strong editorial control and strict adherence to deadlines. Although he instituted an art-return program, and implemented a policy giving creators royalties when their books passed certain sales benchmarks or when characters they worked on were licensed as toys, Shooter occasionally found himself in well-publicized conflicts with some writers and artists. Creators such as Steve Gerber, Marv Wolfman, Gene Colan, John Byrne, and Doug Moench left to work for DC
"Effective immediately start doing good tv and movies. I realize that this directive reflects a substantial departure from previous company policy, but please try to comply"
Shooter's blog is a worthwhile read. He has a series of posts about his time starting in comics with National Periodicals at 14 years of age, writing the Legion of Super-Heroes and pickup stories. Shooter is no mean artist as well as a workmanlike writer. But, he's not an inker. Definitely not an inker.
When he came to Marvel, it was after a series of failed Editor-in-Chief tenures by Roy Thomas and a newer cadre of Boomers in the industry after Stan Lee was promoted to Executive Suite and put in charge of selling Marvel to Hollywood. Shooter's interactions with many of the creators highlights just how many Gammas worked in comics after National was sold in 1967 and Marvel was sold in 1968.
Here is a third-party summary of Shooter's career at the Big Two.
The Groth gamma is over the top. And it turns out Mr. Shooter is the reason I was a Make MIne Marvel gal back in the day (Make Ours Arkhaven, now, natch) I still own many of those titles. Thanks so much for the article link.
He had quite an ominous look. I'm confident that the villain Kid Miracleman was based off his appearance. Apparantly Alan Moore hated the guy. Somehow it only makes Jim more badass to have been turned into a cold hearted murderous supervillain. Dark Lord in Alt-Hero destroys London when?
I am a real sigma and this is relatable because I am the Alfa wolf to my wolf pack so I need to protect my discord kitten owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
real
As a sigma who's been forced by circumstance into a few leadership positions (and failed utterly to actually hold the hierarchy together beyond the most structured, goal-oriented activities), I've come to realize there are some severe downsides to the natural sigma detachment. Other people just can't relate and find it off-putting, assuming it's some kind of tough guy facade and often becoming intimidated or resentful as a result. Vox (or anyone else with insight on the matter) - what advice would you give a sigma when obligated by circumstance to take up a leadership role in a hierarchy? While not something I generally care about, they are incredibly useful for getting things done (not to mention getting laid) if you're at the top and willing to dedicate the time to maintaining your position. Is this even worth attempting?
(grunch) Already 186 comments and it is 11:38am Eastern time. Quick HTML view-source on my phone, and looks this was posted, maybe just 1** hour ago, really? If so, this must be a new record for comments -- and worries me how many sperg threads have already been shared...
** oops, date was yesterday. But still, 25 hours and this many replies, quite the reaction this blog triggered.
Rust Cohle from True Detective Season 1 comes to mind - loathed by his colleagues, prefers to work alone, cold, disconnected, one day just walks out & disappears.
In fiction, maybe Jon Shannow from David Gemmell's Jerusalem Man trilogy.
Agree about Rust Cohle... with Marty being rather Gamma, at least in contrast to Rust.
I'd see Marty as a classic Delta, a good team man, very solid (albeit a lying cheater with women). Good counterpart to Rust, they balance each other out.
Thank you for this post and all the comments. It took a while for this "epiphany" but overlaying normal expectations onto a Sigma is certainly part of the problem. If you don't know about Sigmas and don't know the archetype then you expect Alpha. Hallucinatory expectations that are violated are a serous disappointment. I don't expect unicorns and lolly pops from seeing people as they are, but reality is far better for all concerned.
Sigma's are like Mercenary Leaders.
Worked with one for sure sigma. Came in, changed a process, threatened the status of a lot of leadership, and then was forced out by what I now see as a gamma in leadership. He honestly laughed when he was fired.
I was an individual contributor at the time, so more of a spectator to the game. But what I remember most about him was that he would just say "I want this. Figure it out!" And then LET ME GO DO IT!
He has bounced through a lot of different roles since, and I am not sure what he is doing now.
i don't fit the physical description of Sigma as ive been fat for a long time now, but i do often use the joke "everytime i leave a job an angel is born".
As a consultant I am regularly put in the position where a degree of Sigma detactment is required. Ultimately they are paying for my services so it's on them if they waste my time.
In the end I'm not going to be there.
As a delta this mindset does not come naturally and I really miss being part of a hierarchy.
The more I read about the Sigma, the more I am convinced I have only met one that was clearly identifiable. I am sure there have been others, but with insufficient interaction to be memorable.
Mistaken for alphas, as the rule goes...
This leads me to believe that identifying a sigma more or less requires sufficient interaction, and observing their behavior under certain social or workplace stresses where the alpha and sigma respond differently. I suppose these could be positive "stresses" as well; for example, I'll guess that a Sigma will respond to compliments and praise very different than an alpha.
My suspicion is that the Sigma is more resistant (if not totally immune) than the Alpha to kiss-ups, flattery, manipulation, etc. If this impression is true, that alone is a reason that the hive will not like them. They want to know that standard tools and tactics will work. The alpha may see right through these tactics, but I am guessing is willing to play along to achieve his goals. And who knows - maybe dumber alphas fall for it.
A good point, a very easy way to distinguish a Sigma from an Alpha is flattery. Alphas will lap it up, Sigmas will immediately become suspicious if not out right hostile.
I suspect some of it may be cultural, too.
Having worked across borders in Europe, UK, and the USA, I found for instance, Brits tend to think any praise is not genuine - but is secretly appreciated if it's fair; you should never praise a German for a job well done as he will rest on his laurels; Meds you have to praise before you ask them to do something; and most Americans will eat out of your hand after praising them for a job well done. Which is where, I imagine, the sigma sticks out in this respect culturally.
That is very informative - I hadn't considered cultural differences in that regard. I guess then I'm a secret Brit instead of a secret sigma! Praise always seems weird to me and I just want it over with. Oddly, I don't mind giving it.
Based on the description this doesn't sound like a female workplace, but the back-biting, gossipy drama, and he-hurt-my-feelings complaining, all at the expense of the mission objectives, comes off as scarily close to one.
Really appreciated this one. Helped me make sense of a few things.
Nothing better than the feeling of getting fired. All of a sudden the vague forecasts of the status game turn into the stark contrast of finances and opportunities. At the same time, I'm not going to pretend that it isn't hurtful to suddenly get kicked out when you've poured a lot of energy into mastering a job (getting top sales, becoming the trainer for new people). But this helped me realize how ridiculous it is to be upset about it.
What am I actually upset about? The hope that - hey, if I get top sales/demonstrate expertise/whatever benchmark, then maybe management will fuck off with the pointless busy work during slow hours, and HR will realize I have no interest in fucking women I work with. The hope that I can just vibe and chill, make a bunch of money and do my thing. But that day's never coming, is it?
And likewise, not much I can do to avoid pissing off somebody in the organization, aside from being the temp guy problem solver.
Thanks Vox.
Besides skunkworks and independent projects, are there any other ways to recruit and keep high-performing Sigmas in an organization?
On a related note, does a Sigma in charge of an organization like skunkworks appreciate having someone else handle “people stuff” like salary raises, employee recognition, etc, so that he can just focus on the mission? Or is that seen as interfering?
Are there any Sigmas in charge of organizations? Examples, please.
Putin
IIRC, Vox said Xi is a Sigma too.
Steve Jobs most likely.
Alphas have bravos handle stuff for them, too.
The research labs would like to have a bunch of Sigmas, too. But there are never enough to keep the shop busy. So gammas and women always sneak in. To wit universities.
You can be in a business relying on expert contractors for all revenue tasks, keeping all employees in the back office. That will improve your Sigma odds. But your company will never get big.
The SSH has been great for identifying what happened to super talents that got ejected. I realized that Jim Shooter, greatest editor Marvel comics ever had, was a 6'7" sigma. He was brought on for the desperate mission to save Marvel, accomplished it AND made sure comics were all published on time, then was ejected and maligned forevermore. For seemingly no reason.
Here's his 1984 memo to the primadonna staff of Marvel:
"Effective immediately start doing good comics. I realize that this directive reflects a substantial departure from previous company policy, but please try to comply."
Here's how it ended:
"Despite his success in revitalizing Marvel, Shooter angered and alienated a number of long-time Marvel creators by insisting on strong editorial control and strict adherence to deadlines. Although he instituted an art-return program, and implemented a policy giving creators royalties when their books passed certain sales benchmarks or when characters they worked on were licensed as toys, Shooter occasionally found himself in well-publicized conflicts with some writers and artists. Creators such as Steve Gerber, Marv Wolfman, Gene Colan, John Byrne, and Doug Moench left to work for DC
Shooter was fired from Marvel on April 15, 1987"
"Effective immediately start doing good tv and movies. I realize that this directive reflects a substantial departure from previous company policy, but please try to comply"
- dream memo from future Devil Mouse CEO
Shooter's blog is a worthwhile read. He has a series of posts about his time starting in comics with National Periodicals at 14 years of age, writing the Legion of Super-Heroes and pickup stories. Shooter is no mean artist as well as a workmanlike writer. But, he's not an inker. Definitely not an inker.
When he came to Marvel, it was after a series of failed Editor-in-Chief tenures by Roy Thomas and a newer cadre of Boomers in the industry after Stan Lee was promoted to Executive Suite and put in charge of selling Marvel to Hollywood. Shooter's interactions with many of the creators highlights just how many Gammas worked in comics after National was sold in 1967 and Marvel was sold in 1968.
Here is a third-party summary of Shooter's career at the Big Two.
http://rsmwriter.blogspot.com/2016/06/jim-shooter-second-opinion.html
The Groth gamma is over the top. And it turns out Mr. Shooter is the reason I was a Make MIne Marvel gal back in the day (Make Ours Arkhaven, now, natch) I still own many of those titles. Thanks so much for the article link.
The size of the Shooter hate-chip on Groth's shoulder is Mt. Everest-like.
Extreme Gamma confirmed.
Looked him up. A fine example of where physiognomy is on point for assessing a SSH profile. Of course, he has the striking Sigma eyes.
He had quite an ominous look. I'm confident that the villain Kid Miracleman was based off his appearance. Apparantly Alan Moore hated the guy. Somehow it only makes Jim more badass to have been turned into a cold hearted murderous supervillain. Dark Lord in Alt-Hero destroys London when?
https://g1rm.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/miracleman87.png
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_small/0/1494/87391-38087-jim-shooter.jpg
How Alan Moore felt having a sigma as his editor
https://shorturl.at/jmzGY
Well, if Alan Moore hated him, he must be alright.
Moore hated a lot of people.
Bad little Gamma, no Watchmen rights.
A Sigma trying to corral artists to meet deadlines.
So Dag *is* getting fired.
Now, seriously, that dichotomy is interesting: either you lead, or you're out. Must be tiresome, and probably objectively unjust quite often.
Indifference. Sigmas exude it.