There's an old interview with Tom Cruise discussing Scientology, specifically the use of pharmaceuticals to treat mental issues, and Cruise is just as forceful yet polite. Impressive. Perhaps his scientology experience had helped him. Knew a Scientology guy who was equally impressive in his delving into details and pleasant but determined pressing of the issue.
I compare the examples of behaviour described to my own and think, "Oh! I didn't HAVE to. I could have done THAT (theoretically at least, within my SSH limits at the time), but I didn't; what does that say about me?" And ditto in the case of less desirable or unproductive behaviour, following Sun Tzu's dictum about knowing oneself and others. I've taken some of those personality tests like Myers-Briggs, and, "Oh, that's interesting" then 5 minutes later I've forgotten about it.
Tom Cruise's handling of the "squirter" or Vox Day choosing not take his band on tour (for example) are far more memorable because real.
One of the things I've never understood is the demands that people working for them not make eye contact with them. Tom Cruise on the set is one of these (reportedly.) I've considered that it might be a interruption thing, where it changes his emotional response as an actor, or other less complimentary explanations.
I'm reconsidering it now as an alpha behavior to avoid problems with gammas. I can't make the connection rationally, but that is what my intuition is saying.
“I very much doubt you can guess how many interviews and public marketing opportunities I have turned down in the last 30 years within an order of magnitude.”
What I can guess is that number is going to skyrocket once the SSH book comes out.
Man Vox, how did you manage to be a chart topping musical artist, a millionaire video game creator, a nationally syndicated writer, an accomplished martial artist, marry a Heather, raise a sizable family, an economist with an extraordinary rate of being correct, an epic fantasy writer AND a highly successful non-fiction writer, and have a whole bunch of other accomplishments I am too lazy to list?
Are there some Sigma traits that help with being successful across so many realms?
Sigmas seems to have focused interest and times of outright obsessions with different things.
Imagine having the qualitaties of an alpha but not being tied to a hierarchy, it leaves you free to focus on these interests and 'obsess' about them untill the subject is properly mined.
Vox, being highly intelligent and analytical, can stalk out the path in how to quickly mine the subject of interest properly and then work towards it.
Give it a couple of decades and voila, great success in multiple fields.
I will add that sigmas also don't spend the time it takes to solidify their place in a hierarchy. It turns out normies spend an enormous amount of time filling obligations to the group, whether it be the Delta working overtime for absolutely no reason, the Bravo policing everyone via email updates or the Alpha hitting on every chick in sight. Some people spend their entire days managing and wrangling their place in the hierarchy. That's a lot of time that can be spent on other interests.
You end up having to deal with Gamma rage a LOT in academia. What works some of the time is to interrupt the outburst, make and don't release eye contact, and say slowly and distinctly "We are not talking about this any more." Maintain eye contact and lean forward and/or eyebrow raise if they try to keep talking. Do not respond to ANY specifics, just repeat "We are not talking about this any more." They eventually back down (though I'm sure they spend the next few months planning your murder).
Most people would really not understand the mental process that would go through a Sigma's head faced with this.
Since Vox asked, I'll present a hypothetical scenario.
How it looks to the world:
Gamma squirts Sigma
Sigma punches Gamma in the face.
World: The Sigma over-reacted, he's out of control, blah, blah.
How it looks to the Sigma:
If I punch this idiot they will say I am a violent psychopath that can't take a joke or control his emotions. Maybe even invite more idiots to try this again. That's fine.
Punches gamma in the mouth anyway.
A very similar situation took place with Cristian Bale.
Some idiot sound guy screwed up the scene for the third time by putting his mike in the shot and Bale goes off at him verbally.
The rage in Bale's voice is palpable but fully controlled, he's not flying off the handle, he is verbally bitchslapping the sound guy who you instantly imagine is a Seth Rogen look alike whining some excuse, and Bale hammers him with precise verbal blows about him having screwed up the scene for the third time in a row, specifically not listening or following instructions, being unprofessional and so on. Every excuse the Rogen Clone comes up with is demolished mercilessly and a further verbal beating administered. It was an audio file and the world went nuts saying what a psycho Bale was. I heard it and I was like? Huh? Bale is 100% right and that fat fuck needs a slap and to be thrown off any set Bale is ever going to work on in the future. Had I been the director that's what I would have done, got rid of the sound guy instantly even if it halted filming for a day until I get a replacement. Which would also have the salutary effect of making everyone else on set pay that little bit more attention.
And while Bale has enough presence and Charisma to do the relatively little PR he does, he is a perfectionist at his job and pretty much stays out of the limelight and some of the dark accusations about him having cut out his sister and mother from his life, probably have truth in them which if one knew the details, I'd probably likely side with Bale on too. Which to my mind makes him a Sigma and not an Alpha.
That Christian Bale moment was satirized by 30 Rock in a deleted scene (Season 3 I think), and even that made me empathize with the angry star ("Tracy Jordan") instead of the crew member being yelled at.
I can't imagine how much more powerful it must have been for the crew witnessing Bale's body language in person.
Was curious about this story about Bale - I looked it up - his family is a shitshow of course - they leached off him as a breadwinner most of his life then he married a Serbian girl with a great family and it seems he finally found people who showed him what a functioning kind loving family feels like.
Cutting off his mother and sister happened because they had a verbal argument over the way his mother was treating his wife. He (verbally) kicked them out of his hotel and the next day the mother and sister went to the cops and files assault charges against him.
I am not going to lay claim to being a Sigma but I can tell you my mother and sister did something very similar to me in regards to my relationship with my wife and I completely cut them out and have no intention of ever speaking to them again before I die.
I think one of the key characteristics of Sigmas is an internal locus of control paired with an personal internal value system that has ENGRAVED lines you do NOT cross.
It doesn't matter if the rest of the planet thinks said behavior is 'OK' or 'minor' or 'worthy of forgiveness' at some future point in time. And I know virtually all other SSH levels will adjust their forgiveness levels to the rest of society given enough pressure.
But if You fuck with a Sigma in the wrong way - if you cross one of those internal value lines -you just cease to exist as a life-form for them and (at best) you will NEVER be allowed in their presence again for the rest of your lifetime.
Having your own mother and sister try to press charges against you for a verbal family spat ?
What a coincidence... it just so happens my own mother AND sister, are not going to hear from me ever again, unless an active and pretty impressive miracle occurs. But short of divine intervention, it isn't likely to happen.
Disclaimer appreciated, but unfortunately your GUESS as to "why" will now likely bring out contless other hypothesizing theorizers who are "just *trying* to heeelp..." :-\
Sigmas may be created due to wanting to distance themselves from the dysfunctional family, making childhood a lonely, self outcast situation. Lack of good role models in the family can lead to isolation, self-reliance, and building their own frame. That frame will be defended by only themselves and thus can get honed and sharpened with every failure.
It seems a difference between a sigma and a gamma is one puts the work into understanding the world and moving around the obstacles in it (mpai) and the other fools themselves that the world is wrong and should change just for them.
Completely agree. If pre-prepared, might be different, but, let's face it, what one of us could pass up the chance to smash a gamma in the face even if something else would make us look cool, who cares?
Given that the Sigma doesn't care in the slightest what others think, including the perpetrator, and given the unlikelihood of crossing paths with the same person, I would guess the Sigma would give the death stare and walk away.
If the Sigma is followed by the jerk, he would confront to make it stop.
I worked for an Alpha for several years. My favorite boss. I was young, I slacked and performed below ability. He called me into his office, sat me down, and reviewed my work. Then he tossed it in my lap, sat back in his chair, looked me directly in the face and said "You're better than this". I felt two feet tall. It's odd, even when dressing you down, a good Alpha can motivate you to be better.
Additional to being rude, squirting someone with water is a really bizarre decision, especially considering this guy is more likely to be oversocialized (Kaczynski) than not.
People read the alpha description and falsely assume that an alpha is always being hyper aggressive. In reality, “dismissive” is a better word for how they shut down most attacks. They really only have to get aggressive with people who *might* be a legitimate threat (usually sigmas or other alphas)
Overreaction looks like frustration and incompetence. Anger is a social emotion, where you stop giving a bleep about the rules as you see them, and now you start swinging.
Those with high status know what the rules are, because those in the middle go up to them for guidance.
Suggest some sigmas can and do frame as alphas situational in certain hierarchies — mutinies often occur
There's an old interview with Tom Cruise discussing Scientology, specifically the use of pharmaceuticals to treat mental issues, and Cruise is just as forceful yet polite. Impressive. Perhaps his scientology experience had helped him. Knew a Scientology guy who was equally impressive in his delving into details and pleasant but determined pressing of the issue.
I compare the examples of behaviour described to my own and think, "Oh! I didn't HAVE to. I could have done THAT (theoretically at least, within my SSH limits at the time), but I didn't; what does that say about me?" And ditto in the case of less desirable or unproductive behaviour, following Sun Tzu's dictum about knowing oneself and others. I've taken some of those personality tests like Myers-Briggs, and, "Oh, that's interesting" then 5 minutes later I've forgotten about it.
Tom Cruise's handling of the "squirter" or Vox Day choosing not take his band on tour (for example) are far more memorable because real.
One of the things I've never understood is the demands that people working for them not make eye contact with them. Tom Cruise on the set is one of these (reportedly.) I've considered that it might be a interruption thing, where it changes his emotional response as an actor, or other less complimentary explanations.
I'm reconsidering it now as an alpha behavior to avoid problems with gammas. I can't make the connection rationally, but that is what my intuition is saying.
Sigma would be no where near the red carpet
“I very much doubt you can guess how many interviews and public marketing opportunities I have turned down in the last 30 years within an order of magnitude.”
What I can guess is that number is going to skyrocket once the SSH book comes out.
When you identify the cancer, you cut it out.
When you've been doing it for a while, you identify them earlier than you did before.
Here on Sigma Game it looks like this:
Gamma: gamma-ing
Vox: S.T.F.U.
Gamma: more gamma-ing
Vox: you're banned.
Man Vox, how did you manage to be a chart topping musical artist, a millionaire video game creator, a nationally syndicated writer, an accomplished martial artist, marry a Heather, raise a sizable family, an economist with an extraordinary rate of being correct, an epic fantasy writer AND a highly successful non-fiction writer, and have a whole bunch of other accomplishments I am too lazy to list?
Are there some Sigma traits that help with being successful across so many realms?
Sigmas seems to have focused interest and times of outright obsessions with different things.
Imagine having the qualitaties of an alpha but not being tied to a hierarchy, it leaves you free to focus on these interests and 'obsess' about them untill the subject is properly mined.
Vox, being highly intelligent and analytical, can stalk out the path in how to quickly mine the subject of interest properly and then work towards it.
Give it a couple of decades and voila, great success in multiple fields.
I will add that sigmas also don't spend the time it takes to solidify their place in a hierarchy. It turns out normies spend an enormous amount of time filling obligations to the group, whether it be the Delta working overtime for absolutely no reason, the Bravo policing everyone via email updates or the Alpha hitting on every chick in sight. Some people spend their entire days managing and wrangling their place in the hierarchy. That's a lot of time that can be spent on other interests.
You end up having to deal with Gamma rage a LOT in academia. What works some of the time is to interrupt the outburst, make and don't release eye contact, and say slowly and distinctly "We are not talking about this any more." Maintain eye contact and lean forward and/or eyebrow raise if they try to keep talking. Do not respond to ANY specifics, just repeat "We are not talking about this any more." They eventually back down (though I'm sure they spend the next few months planning your murder).
Most people would really not understand the mental process that would go through a Sigma's head faced with this.
Since Vox asked, I'll present a hypothetical scenario.
How it looks to the world:
Gamma squirts Sigma
Sigma punches Gamma in the face.
World: The Sigma over-reacted, he's out of control, blah, blah.
How it looks to the Sigma:
If I punch this idiot they will say I am a violent psychopath that can't take a joke or control his emotions. Maybe even invite more idiots to try this again. That's fine.
Punches gamma in the mouth anyway.
A very similar situation took place with Cristian Bale.
Some idiot sound guy screwed up the scene for the third time by putting his mike in the shot and Bale goes off at him verbally.
The rage in Bale's voice is palpable but fully controlled, he's not flying off the handle, he is verbally bitchslapping the sound guy who you instantly imagine is a Seth Rogen look alike whining some excuse, and Bale hammers him with precise verbal blows about him having screwed up the scene for the third time in a row, specifically not listening or following instructions, being unprofessional and so on. Every excuse the Rogen Clone comes up with is demolished mercilessly and a further verbal beating administered. It was an audio file and the world went nuts saying what a psycho Bale was. I heard it and I was like? Huh? Bale is 100% right and that fat fuck needs a slap and to be thrown off any set Bale is ever going to work on in the future. Had I been the director that's what I would have done, got rid of the sound guy instantly even if it halted filming for a day until I get a replacement. Which would also have the salutary effect of making everyone else on set pay that little bit more attention.
And while Bale has enough presence and Charisma to do the relatively little PR he does, he is a perfectionist at his job and pretty much stays out of the limelight and some of the dark accusations about him having cut out his sister and mother from his life, probably have truth in them which if one knew the details, I'd probably likely side with Bale on too. Which to my mind makes him a Sigma and not an Alpha.
That Christian Bale moment was satirized by 30 Rock in a deleted scene (Season 3 I think), and even that made me empathize with the angry star ("Tracy Jordan") instead of the crew member being yelled at.
I can't imagine how much more powerful it must have been for the crew witnessing Bale's body language in person.
Was curious about this story about Bale - I looked it up - his family is a shitshow of course - they leached off him as a breadwinner most of his life then he married a Serbian girl with a great family and it seems he finally found people who showed him what a functioning kind loving family feels like.
Cutting off his mother and sister happened because they had a verbal argument over the way his mother was treating his wife. He (verbally) kicked them out of his hotel and the next day the mother and sister went to the cops and files assault charges against him.
I am not going to lay claim to being a Sigma but I can tell you my mother and sister did something very similar to me in regards to my relationship with my wife and I completely cut them out and have no intention of ever speaking to them again before I die.
I think one of the key characteristics of Sigmas is an internal locus of control paired with an personal internal value system that has ENGRAVED lines you do NOT cross.
It doesn't matter if the rest of the planet thinks said behavior is 'OK' or 'minor' or 'worthy of forgiveness' at some future point in time. And I know virtually all other SSH levels will adjust their forgiveness levels to the rest of society given enough pressure.
But if You fuck with a Sigma in the wrong way - if you cross one of those internal value lines -you just cease to exist as a life-form for them and (at best) you will NEVER be allowed in their presence again for the rest of your lifetime.
Having your own mother and sister try to press charges against you for a verbal family spat ?
Yeah that would do it.
What a coincidence... it just so happens my own mother AND sister, are not going to hear from me ever again, unless an active and pretty impressive miracle occurs. But short of divine intervention, it isn't likely to happen.
I will add - my GUESS is almost no Sigmas come from functioning happy loving families.
They didn't get the way they are by accident.
And it comes at a (very deep) cost.
Disclaimer appreciated, but unfortunately your GUESS as to "why" will now likely bring out contless other hypothesizing theorizers who are "just *trying* to heeelp..." :-\
Or if a Sigma does come from a functional family, the family itself are outcasts or outsiders from the society.
Sigmas may be created due to wanting to distance themselves from the dysfunctional family, making childhood a lonely, self outcast situation. Lack of good role models in the family can lead to isolation, self-reliance, and building their own frame. That frame will be defended by only themselves and thus can get honed and sharpened with every failure.
It seems a difference between a sigma and a gamma is one puts the work into understanding the world and moving around the obstacles in it (mpai) and the other fools themselves that the world is wrong and should change just for them.
(M)eh... I think there are many possible factors. Not all always clear, and I do think at least to some extent some of them may be genetic.
Completely agree. If pre-prepared, might be different, but, let's face it, what one of us could pass up the chance to smash a gamma in the face even if something else would make us look cool, who cares?
Given that the Sigma doesn't care in the slightest what others think, including the perpetrator, and given the unlikelihood of crossing paths with the same person, I would guess the Sigma would give the death stare and walk away.
If the Sigma is followed by the jerk, he would confront to make it stop.
The "look" would cause him to wet himself. No follow up required.
It's funny how so many of Cruise's best characters are sigmas. He may not be one himself, but he sure knows how to portrait a sigma pretty well.
I worked for an Alpha for several years. My favorite boss. I was young, I slacked and performed below ability. He called me into his office, sat me down, and reviewed my work. Then he tossed it in my lap, sat back in his chair, looked me directly in the face and said "You're better than this". I felt two feet tall. It's odd, even when dressing you down, a good Alpha can motivate you to be better.
The Duke of Wellington would have had him flogged.
Well he had the hierarchal power to do so. If Vox tried to flog someone it wouldn't end well for him. Real power has its uses.
Additional to being rude, squirting someone with water is a really bizarre decision, especially considering this guy is more likely to be oversocialized (Kaczynski) than not.
It's hard not to go Freudian with it.
People read the alpha description and falsely assume that an alpha is always being hyper aggressive. In reality, “dismissive” is a better word for how they shut down most attacks. They really only have to get aggressive with people who *might* be a legitimate threat (usually sigmas or other alphas)
Very true. The higher the status, the more muted the response, at least initially. Overreaction is low-status.
Overreaction looks like frustration and incompetence. Anger is a social emotion, where you stop giving a bleep about the rules as you see them, and now you start swinging.
Those with high status know what the rules are, because those in the middle go up to them for guidance.