My wife, who is SAHM and pregnant, our two young (4 & 1.5) daughters and I recently went on a 3 day, 2 night, road trip to visit some family. I have always planned the route, hotels, etc. for these things in our past 10 years together, but this is the first time we did it with children. A week or two before we were to depart she dropped a bunch of print outs of google maps and showed were the best chances for hotels would be and how far we could drive each day. I was surprised as this was not really anything she had ever done before. I didn't object to any of her plans, I looked at the maps and confirmed some details and left it alone. When it came time to actually do the trip, I did almost all the driving (as I should and wanted to) and I made all the calls on when we would stop for food, where we would stay in a hotel and how long the drive would be every day. She never once got mad that I didn't consider her plans or even really look at her maps. I think she needed to do the planning for herself or something, I really have no idea why she did it, but when it came to actually executing the trip I could tell she was beyond relived that I took on 100% of all the logistics. Her focus the entire time was feeding and calming the children... ...well, at least until she got overwhelmed and then I took that on, as well as the driving, planning, fuel stops, etc.
Vox I recently got married to a vietnamese girl who is still in Vietnam and I am waiting for her arrival here after the paperwork issues are done. I am in the USA. My friend I met playing a game online introduced us through his wife who is her cousin. I am 45 and she is 21. I told her that 25 children are incoming, she said three I said we can meet in the middle at whatever God wants for us. I was just wondering how I should rectify this with the idea of Nationalism. Does this make me a hypocrite for having strong national viewpoints? I know there are countless examples of this but I don't want to be logically inconsistent. To be fair she wears UV protective masks because she is scared to look like a "black african" so she is whiter than I am apparently. I know from a macro perspective the goal is family units intact and that's my goal also. Am I overthinking this? I think in one sense I am and in one sense I may not be. Thanks for any input.
Doing stuff that other people could do for themselves is codependence. Don't be that person. Detach, accept people's limitations and give them the dignity of choice. If they f up, those consequences are the best teacher. Their failures are their own responsibility.
I offer help only strategically (and only once per situation), and await being asked for help. When asked, I am willing to help until the limit of my own personal boundaries. My boundaries are about my own health, not others. I retain control over my self, my money, and my time.
The only exception is young children, and there you should release control as soon as you reasonably can.
This was all from a very hard lesson about trying to rescue people.
My husband always 'let go' of the unimportant decisions: he didn't LIKE lots of family pix on the mantel, I did. And of course, over time, I knew he was bothered; that it bothered HIM led me to take them down. I always had a 'say' in decisions: he wanted to know my FEELINGS about it; not usually whether I thought we "should" do it; but I also had agreed that HE was the final decider. Michael also stood firm on "just because he married me did NOT make me the house servant."
He had 'refusal' power and I was always willing to say that about something I wanted... like hardwood floors on the main level. Since HE took care of vacuuming and cleaning the CREAM carpets throughout the house, I ceded my desire for hardwoods. However, we had negotiated that split before we married; he'd been married for 20 years to a woman who made more.
Going in to change the dynamic should be done more delicately. Don't offer to pick up a 'support the wife' job you hate and will avoid doing. Think over 'support the HOUSEHOLD' jobs and see which ones you can take over -- IF she wants you to.
Think of it as you want to promote yourself to CAPTAIN of this ship, and stop having her be 'in charge.' But also remember that that captain does NOT micro-manage everything. He assumes the Executive Officer is entirely competent and always takes her advice and preferences into account -- IN the important decisions, and even when he decides against the XO's desires. It's a partnership, and the Captain is careful of the rank and boundaries of the XO. And yes, the XO carries more WORK, but the CO carries the final responsibility.
It's a common sense thing, IMO...In our household, my wife makes most of the decisions in areas that she either knows more about, or more commonly, in areas she cares about and I don't...But if she is making a decision that I strongly disagree with, we discuss it at length before anything happens...and it becomes a joint decision...
If you've ever been in management you might have heard the phrase "eat the frog." The idea is essentially to make yourself do your most unpleasant task first thing in the morning to avoid "reasons" for avoiding it crop up.
You might stop and figure out what one of your wife's "frogs" are and claim that task for yourself. For my wife, it was ... getting the mail and sorting it. She detests this and once I figured that out, I started doing "mail call" every couple days. No big deal to me, big psychological relief for her for reasons completely inexplicable.
In order to be treated as the man, you must behave like the man.
1. Start by getting a job that makes more money; if you're at the top of your profession, learn new skills. Make enough to allow your wife to stay at home for number 3.
2. Get into a community where the women exhibit the virtues you want your wife to exhibit; their social pressure will help you.
3. Start having kids, preferably within just a year or two of each other and your wife's attention will go towards them rather than some career.
You may have to downsize your lifestyle in order to accomplish these things, but its much better to have an ordered home with proper roles than to have that vacation to Cancun and an RV.
"If she says yes, then listen to her complain about it for as long as she likes and don’t suggest any solutions."
This wisdom is echoed in Scripture often. "A fool seeks to make his opinion known." & "Be quick to listen, slow to speak [...]" & "If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame".
Men... read the last two paragraphs, then read them again. Open things up enough so that us women can complain, for as long as we want. No advice or solutions, just support. Then let us tell you what you can do to help. That would (for myself at least) alleviate 99% of my bitchy moods.
There's nothing more to add for this situation without more information. Vox's advice is solid and sage.
Then there's this gem:
"Remember, women don’t like solutions, they don’t like advice, they don’t like recommendations, and they don’t tend to want help they haven’t requested, however indirectly. But they do love people making things easier for them. So figure out how to do the latter without engaging in any of the former."
She's not talking to you. Let her get it out and if you feel like you need to add something then learn to grunt and grocery shop.
{wince} Maybe not grocery shop.... most men really and truly do NOT see the minuscule difference in the marinara brands or onions. If she's the cook, and you bring home the wrong stuff -- you unnecessarily add to her burden. A male friend helps his wife through the week make up the weekend shopping list that HE goes to get... She ensures she has provided him info on brand and type she wants, he and I (we grocery shop together most weekends) make sure he gets the RIGHT stuff. Or -- nowadays -- have PIX of the brands and style she likes on your phone and make your grocery list be multi-modal!
Every man has a mantle, with it all the authority and responsibility of a man. He doesn't want to wear it, it's too heavy. He knows there are things he should be doing but the authority to do these things is on the ground and he trips over it.
There weight of all that responsibility is crushing. You have to put it on your shoulders. It will nearly cause you to topple over completely but over time you will grow much stronger under it. Out of that strength decisions for the family flow naturally and easily and behavior changes as if flipping a switch.
> We made a pact when we got married. I was to make all the big decisions, and my wife was to make all the little decisions. So far it has worked out well; no big decisions have come up.
It's very easy to keep the "serve and obey" part of the vow when you never receive any orders. In a good marriage this is how it should be 95% of the time IMO. But every once in a great while, there is a big decision that does have to get made, and I do think at that point it's the man who will be the final decisionmaker.
This is solid advice. Being more proactive as a father than usual would be the most attractive and helpful change with the least potential for stepping on anyone's toes.
Pray with your family as you pray alone, with a focus on your family members most of all. Thank God for what he has done for all of you; seek forgiveness for your sins against Him and your family; ask for what you all need.
It's good practice, I'm finding, and it's enriching my private prayers.
Wow, that final paragraph!
My wife, who is SAHM and pregnant, our two young (4 & 1.5) daughters and I recently went on a 3 day, 2 night, road trip to visit some family. I have always planned the route, hotels, etc. for these things in our past 10 years together, but this is the first time we did it with children. A week or two before we were to depart she dropped a bunch of print outs of google maps and showed were the best chances for hotels would be and how far we could drive each day. I was surprised as this was not really anything she had ever done before. I didn't object to any of her plans, I looked at the maps and confirmed some details and left it alone. When it came time to actually do the trip, I did almost all the driving (as I should and wanted to) and I made all the calls on when we would stop for food, where we would stay in a hotel and how long the drive would be every day. She never once got mad that I didn't consider her plans or even really look at her maps. I think she needed to do the planning for herself or something, I really have no idea why she did it, but when it came to actually executing the trip I could tell she was beyond relived that I took on 100% of all the logistics. Her focus the entire time was feeding and calming the children... ...well, at least until she got overwhelmed and then I took that on, as well as the driving, planning, fuel stops, etc.
Vox I recently got married to a vietnamese girl who is still in Vietnam and I am waiting for her arrival here after the paperwork issues are done. I am in the USA. My friend I met playing a game online introduced us through his wife who is her cousin. I am 45 and she is 21. I told her that 25 children are incoming, she said three I said we can meet in the middle at whatever God wants for us. I was just wondering how I should rectify this with the idea of Nationalism. Does this make me a hypocrite for having strong national viewpoints? I know there are countless examples of this but I don't want to be logically inconsistent. To be fair she wears UV protective masks because she is scared to look like a "black african" so she is whiter than I am apparently. I know from a macro perspective the goal is family units intact and that's my goal also. Am I overthinking this? I think in one sense I am and in one sense I may not be. Thanks for any input.
Doing stuff that other people could do for themselves is codependence. Don't be that person. Detach, accept people's limitations and give them the dignity of choice. If they f up, those consequences are the best teacher. Their failures are their own responsibility.
I offer help only strategically (and only once per situation), and await being asked for help. When asked, I am willing to help until the limit of my own personal boundaries. My boundaries are about my own health, not others. I retain control over my self, my money, and my time.
The only exception is young children, and there you should release control as soon as you reasonably can.
This was all from a very hard lesson about trying to rescue people.
My husband always 'let go' of the unimportant decisions: he didn't LIKE lots of family pix on the mantel, I did. And of course, over time, I knew he was bothered; that it bothered HIM led me to take them down. I always had a 'say' in decisions: he wanted to know my FEELINGS about it; not usually whether I thought we "should" do it; but I also had agreed that HE was the final decider. Michael also stood firm on "just because he married me did NOT make me the house servant."
He had 'refusal' power and I was always willing to say that about something I wanted... like hardwood floors on the main level. Since HE took care of vacuuming and cleaning the CREAM carpets throughout the house, I ceded my desire for hardwoods. However, we had negotiated that split before we married; he'd been married for 20 years to a woman who made more.
Going in to change the dynamic should be done more delicately. Don't offer to pick up a 'support the wife' job you hate and will avoid doing. Think over 'support the HOUSEHOLD' jobs and see which ones you can take over -- IF she wants you to.
Think of it as you want to promote yourself to CAPTAIN of this ship, and stop having her be 'in charge.' But also remember that that captain does NOT micro-manage everything. He assumes the Executive Officer is entirely competent and always takes her advice and preferences into account -- IN the important decisions, and even when he decides against the XO's desires. It's a partnership, and the Captain is careful of the rank and boundaries of the XO. And yes, the XO carries more WORK, but the CO carries the final responsibility.
Astute. Every man should file that last paragraph mentally in a golden frame that lights up like a vox setting on a radio when she starts talking.
It's a common sense thing, IMO...In our household, my wife makes most of the decisions in areas that she either knows more about, or more commonly, in areas she cares about and I don't...But if she is making a decision that I strongly disagree with, we discuss it at length before anything happens...and it becomes a joint decision...
If you've ever been in management you might have heard the phrase "eat the frog." The idea is essentially to make yourself do your most unpleasant task first thing in the morning to avoid "reasons" for avoiding it crop up.
You might stop and figure out what one of your wife's "frogs" are and claim that task for yourself. For my wife, it was ... getting the mail and sorting it. She detests this and once I figured that out, I started doing "mail call" every couple days. No big deal to me, big psychological relief for her for reasons completely inexplicable.
In order to be treated as the man, you must behave like the man.
1. Start by getting a job that makes more money; if you're at the top of your profession, learn new skills. Make enough to allow your wife to stay at home for number 3.
2. Get into a community where the women exhibit the virtues you want your wife to exhibit; their social pressure will help you.
3. Start having kids, preferably within just a year or two of each other and your wife's attention will go towards them rather than some career.
You may have to downsize your lifestyle in order to accomplish these things, but its much better to have an ordered home with proper roles than to have that vacation to Cancun and an RV.
"If she says yes, then listen to her complain about it for as long as she likes and don’t suggest any solutions."
This wisdom is echoed in Scripture often. "A fool seeks to make his opinion known." & "Be quick to listen, slow to speak [...]" & "If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame".
Men... read the last two paragraphs, then read them again. Open things up enough so that us women can complain, for as long as we want. No advice or solutions, just support. Then let us tell you what you can do to help. That would (for myself at least) alleviate 99% of my bitchy moods.
Well, maybe 85%.
There's nothing more to add for this situation without more information. Vox's advice is solid and sage.
Then there's this gem:
"Remember, women don’t like solutions, they don’t like advice, they don’t like recommendations, and they don’t tend to want help they haven’t requested, however indirectly. But they do love people making things easier for them. So figure out how to do the latter without engaging in any of the former."
She's not talking to you. Let her get it out and if you feel like you need to add something then learn to grunt and grocery shop.
{wince} Maybe not grocery shop.... most men really and truly do NOT see the minuscule difference in the marinara brands or onions. If she's the cook, and you bring home the wrong stuff -- you unnecessarily add to her burden. A male friend helps his wife through the week make up the weekend shopping list that HE goes to get... She ensures she has provided him info on brand and type she wants, he and I (we grocery shop together most weekends) make sure he gets the RIGHT stuff. Or -- nowadays -- have PIX of the brands and style she likes on your phone and make your grocery list be multi-modal!
We have a saying in my house when asking each other to complete a task like grocery shopping or something similar: Be specific
Every man has a mantle, with it all the authority and responsibility of a man. He doesn't want to wear it, it's too heavy. He knows there are things he should be doing but the authority to do these things is on the ground and he trips over it.
There weight of all that responsibility is crushing. You have to put it on your shoulders. It will nearly cause you to topple over completely but over time you will grow much stronger under it. Out of that strength decisions for the family flow naturally and easily and behavior changes as if flipping a switch.
> We made a pact when we got married. I was to make all the big decisions, and my wife was to make all the little decisions. So far it has worked out well; no big decisions have come up.
--Old joke
It's very easy to keep the "serve and obey" part of the vow when you never receive any orders. In a good marriage this is how it should be 95% of the time IMO. But every once in a great while, there is a big decision that does have to get made, and I do think at that point it's the man who will be the final decisionmaker.
The man shouldn't just be the "final decision maker". He should also be the household "vision caster", and "course setter".
You’re such a misogynist!
Wait-is this the right stack? My leftist friends told me this was a woman-hating blog.
This is solid advice. Being more proactive as a father than usual would be the most attractive and helpful change with the least potential for stepping on anyone's toes.
If you're religious and don't do it already, leading family prayers and devotions can be really helpful in this regard.
Pray with your family as you pray alone, with a focus on your family members most of all. Thank God for what he has done for all of you; seek forgiveness for your sins against Him and your family; ask for what you all need.
It's good practice, I'm finding, and it's enriching my private prayers.