The Pill adds complexity and may be a factor in YoYo effect. As the Pill has negative health effects it also effects mate selection.
So lads, as you avoid cat ladies because they are highly likely to be toxoplasma gondii carriers so too mark and avoid the lunatics on hormonal birth control.
"Sense and Sensibility" and "Persuasion" Jane Austen 1775-1817. The main character wasn't even willing to date the man she married in the end, in the former. In the latter, the main character dumped her beau initially. The entire story is suspense around will she ever get him back after the original brutal rejection. Granted these are works of fiction but the persistent theme had to come from somewhere and it had to resonate with society.
In most cases the best is simply the most consistent and persistent. But if you apply those two principles to your life there should be no shortage of suitors so long as you don't have the face of a monkeys ass.
The advantage of being Feral GenX™ is that the internet didn't muddle the hierarchy. When Chad McTechnical Chad broke up with Blonde, which was a forgone conclusion as he was one handsome, articulate dude with a pile of smarts, and Blonde was a tier-2 girl, everyone expected that Blonde and I would hook up.
Married for over 31 years now.
As someone in the SocialGalactic Men's group recently said, every girl is an Alpha Widow.
The natural ability to navigate this fundamental truth is an SSH attribute.
The knee-jerk response is similar to the reader, however, there's nuance in all things. Why did they break up? How long was their relationship?
It's reasonable to not get too butthurt after one date. I would expect there to be orbiters/spinning plates around both parties early on. It would be far more infuriating if it was after 6 months of exclusivity.
Depending on the current situation (the writer didn't indicate any other interests when he turned her down) I might give it a shot to see what happens, after some conversations about the ex.
The expectation that you are a woman's first choice is utterly insane, both statistically and reciprocally. She is also not your first choice. As Vox said, "Relationships are all about reality." Both parties are doing their best to optimize given their current situations.
My wife's first choice was Klay Thompson. With the right attitude, I can say I beat out Klay Thompson.
Very important: She felt that she had to explain herself to him, to justify not going out with him again. That is a huge indicator of interest. She cared enough about him. As Vox and others have emphasized, only lower status men justify themselves. Same thing in a relationship, the lower party has the urge to explain and justify.
If she felt nothing, she would have ghosted him. So the justification alone is a big plus.
The assumptions in “second choice” are wild. The scenario I assumed from the woman was that the ex was doing the, “i can change” line, she gave him a month to prove it, and he didn’t change. That means you MIGHT have been second to an ex that doesn’t actually exist.
The fact she was honest with you is a pretty good indicator she respected you enough to not dangle you along on the side while she dated the other guy behind your back. I don't see any reason to be bitter about it. Take it for what it is and move on.
She didn't string him along. Didn't sleep with him while trying to get back with her ex. Gave her ex a second chance which means she's less likely to blow up a marriage over something small.
For sure. Treat it like a new day, a new opportunity. If she compares favorably with your current options, give her another chance, as she handled it the right way on the prior date.
Your reasoning is airtight, and there's no logical argument against your position. You're 100% correct, Vox. That said, logic has nothing to do with it.
The heart wants what it wants. For men and women. After all, we're human.
Correct. So the question is, are you making decisions on the sole basis of your emotions or are you actually allowing your mind some input into your decision-making process that underlies your behavior?
Another useful question is: Is she replaceable, and how likely is it that you could find someone of her caliber again? If the answer is 'yes. not that unlikely.' then I don't see why letting her go wasn't the optimal choice—he wouldn’t have to live with the feeling that she left for someone else and only returned after things didn’t work out.
Thanks for clarifying the yo-yo effect. I confused it with the ex coming back for round two. In most cases, I was the one who bailed out first, then asked her back years later, and she would accept.
I hope a future post outlines the "3-second window" Vox mentioned in earlier posts and how to compose themselves in terms of fashion and general temperament to be ready for those moments; similar to how an actor uses multiple takes in order to get his expressions exactly right.
I've probably talked myself out of more prospective interests than I can count. Figuring out all the little nuances like when to use verbal vs non-verbal communication or simply how to portray myself accurately - but not negatively - is something that confuses me a great deal. I enjoy talking, but don't know how to shake the nervous energy I know I exude when dealing with a general unknown.
Practice talking less, listen to her and be comfortable in silence, you talk much because you´re nervous and want to impress, stop thinking about yourself
It is also worth remembering that since status/position/title are more important to women than men, it isn't necessarily you per se that is being relegated to the second tier. I received my commission in the wake of "An Officer & A Gentleman" and "Top Gun" as surface line, and the ladies knew the difference between wings, dolphins and crossed swords with the preference being strongly in that order. The prudent and practical junior naval officer understood that and adjusted his O-club wanderings accordingly. Amusingly, some of my comrades thought that going to the aviator-dominated club at Miramar in civvies would side-step the issue, but the women saw through that ploy instantly. No one with wings would hide his wings.
I experienced the yo-yo effect with two women. The first time my pride got the best of me. The second time, I married her. My competition was taller and better looking, but aimless and unambitious. So, in the end she chose me.
sweating the yo-yo is foolish as it begins with the assumption that the Girl knows what she wants. My experience has taught me this is not the case.
Yo-yos are fun, and can lead to some fun ribbing when you land her.
The Pill adds complexity and may be a factor in YoYo effect. As the Pill has negative health effects it also effects mate selection.
So lads, as you avoid cat ladies because they are highly likely to be toxoplasma gondii carriers so too mark and avoid the lunatics on hormonal birth control.
I suggest the first question on all first dates is "Are you on the pill?"
You'll save a couple bucks because she'll be gone before you even order the drinks.
Better to know the ex is out of the picture than risk them lurking in the background.
Was this true even in the past when fathers, mothers, and society guarded women more closely?
"Sense and Sensibility" and "Persuasion" Jane Austen 1775-1817. The main character wasn't even willing to date the man she married in the end, in the former. In the latter, the main character dumped her beau initially. The entire story is suspense around will she ever get him back after the original brutal rejection. Granted these are works of fiction but the persistent theme had to come from somewhere and it had to resonate with society.
Thank you.
What do you mean?
That women thought like this; before social media and before the sexual revolution.
Most likely.
Banned. No more tough-guy Gamma vulgarisms. It's so tedious.
You may not be her first but you can be her best
In most cases the best is simply the most consistent and persistent. But if you apply those two principles to your life there should be no shortage of suitors so long as you don't have the face of a monkeys ass.
The advantage of being Feral GenX™ is that the internet didn't muddle the hierarchy. When Chad McTechnical Chad broke up with Blonde, which was a forgone conclusion as he was one handsome, articulate dude with a pile of smarts, and Blonde was a tier-2 girl, everyone expected that Blonde and I would hook up.
Married for over 31 years now.
As someone in the SocialGalactic Men's group recently said, every girl is an Alpha Widow.
The natural ability to navigate this fundamental truth is an SSH attribute.
The knee-jerk response is similar to the reader, however, there's nuance in all things. Why did they break up? How long was their relationship?
It's reasonable to not get too butthurt after one date. I would expect there to be orbiters/spinning plates around both parties early on. It would be far more infuriating if it was after 6 months of exclusivity.
Depending on the current situation (the writer didn't indicate any other interests when he turned her down) I might give it a shot to see what happens, after some conversations about the ex.
The expectation that you are a woman's first choice is utterly insane, both statistically and reciprocally. She is also not your first choice. As Vox said, "Relationships are all about reality." Both parties are doing their best to optimize given their current situations.
My wife's first choice was Klay Thompson. With the right attitude, I can say I beat out Klay Thompson.
Very important: She felt that she had to explain herself to him, to justify not going out with him again. That is a huge indicator of interest. She cared enough about him. As Vox and others have emphasized, only lower status men justify themselves. Same thing in a relationship, the lower party has the urge to explain and justify.
If she felt nothing, she would have ghosted him. So the justification alone is a big plus.
The assumptions in “second choice” are wild. The scenario I assumed from the woman was that the ex was doing the, “i can change” line, she gave him a month to prove it, and he didn’t change. That means you MIGHT have been second to an ex that doesn’t actually exist.
The fact she was honest with you is a pretty good indicator she respected you enough to not dangle you along on the side while she dated the other guy behind your back. I don't see any reason to be bitter about it. Take it for what it is and move on.
She didn't string him along. Didn't sleep with him while trying to get back with her ex. Gave her ex a second chance which means she's less likely to blow up a marriage over something small.
Sounds like marriage material.
For sure. Treat it like a new day, a new opportunity. If she compares favorably with your current options, give her another chance, as she handled it the right way on the prior date.
Your reasoning is airtight, and there's no logical argument against your position. You're 100% correct, Vox. That said, logic has nothing to do with it.
The heart wants what it wants. For men and women. After all, we're human.
Correct. So the question is, are you making decisions on the sole basis of your emotions or are you actually allowing your mind some input into your decision-making process that underlies your behavior?
Another useful question is: Is she replaceable, and how likely is it that you could find someone of her caliber again? If the answer is 'yes. not that unlikely.' then I don't see why letting her go wasn't the optimal choice—he wouldn’t have to live with the feeling that she left for someone else and only returned after things didn’t work out.
Thanks for clarifying the yo-yo effect. I confused it with the ex coming back for round two. In most cases, I was the one who bailed out first, then asked her back years later, and she would accept.
I hope a future post outlines the "3-second window" Vox mentioned in earlier posts and how to compose themselves in terms of fashion and general temperament to be ready for those moments; similar to how an actor uses multiple takes in order to get his expressions exactly right.
I've probably talked myself out of more prospective interests than I can count. Figuring out all the little nuances like when to use verbal vs non-verbal communication or simply how to portray myself accurately - but not negatively - is something that confuses me a great deal. I enjoy talking, but don't know how to shake the nervous energy I know I exude when dealing with a general unknown.
Practice talking less, listen to her and be comfortable in silence, you talk much because you´re nervous and want to impress, stop thinking about yourself
Some women like a slightly high-strung man.
It is also worth remembering that since status/position/title are more important to women than men, it isn't necessarily you per se that is being relegated to the second tier. I received my commission in the wake of "An Officer & A Gentleman" and "Top Gun" as surface line, and the ladies knew the difference between wings, dolphins and crossed swords with the preference being strongly in that order. The prudent and practical junior naval officer understood that and adjusted his O-club wanderings accordingly. Amusingly, some of my comrades thought that going to the aviator-dominated club at Miramar in civvies would side-step the issue, but the women saw through that ploy instantly. No one with wings would hide his wings.
Gentlemen, just take the yo-yo effect as a win.
I experienced the yo-yo effect with two women. The first time my pride got the best of me. The second time, I married her. My competition was taller and better looking, but aimless and unambitious. So, in the end she chose me.