Thank you Vox, your article has helped open my eyes and ears to things about females that had not even thought about. A lot of Women being more solipsistic makes more sense. The fact that many of us have had times where women have acted completely with no empathy is a lot more times than men. Also adding the fact that if a man acted like some women do to other men they would quickly get punched.
Just one question how much does culture and social rules affect this dynamic?
2 things (And I guess technology plays a factor) I was thinking.
1. The West when majority Christianity in the past restricted things like sex, marriage and divorce. Meaning a man and woman in theory needed to restrict themselves to one partner (obvious examples where this did not happen).
(Example of how things have change in the west, In America it wasn't until 1974 that women were allowed to apply for and own a credit card in their name, before that they needed their husbands to co sign it).
2. I notice in Asia (Mostly talking about North east Asians) and it is changing (for the worst), the way women and men treat each other. I (White male) get more respect from the average Asian woman (NE or SE) than I do from the average White woman, also it is generally nice to chat. It could be I am blind to the problems that Asian males have with Asian women.
YouTubers like Hoe_Math have it down (although can also be seen as misogynistic). It's hypergamy, that women are chasing the 8s, 9s and 10s. Those men are not treated with distain. It's the 7s and below that are continuous rejected by women, even those of lesser status.
Yup. I still like women because my baseline appreciation of every person is high but women have certainly treated me worse than have men. Usually I don't care because most social ties aren't so deep that it matters. But my first girlfriend was awful to me and freaked the fuck out the only time I ever sent the same energy back to her. I dumped her because to be with her I had to not care about her emotions but I didn't want to be a callous person.
So I've learned that a hard requirement for me to date a woman is she isn't awful to me. I just can't take a partner unseriously enough to ignore bad behavior in someone I'm binding my life to. Gaining status made this easier but bad behavior always crops up so most women aren't wife material.
I read this immediately after reading an article about a woman whose husband *repeatedly* drugged her, let various men rape her while she was unconscious without using protection, which exposed her to HIV among other serious health issues, accused her of cheating when she realized she had STDs... oh yeah, and some of the men raping her were neighbors, friends of the family, etc... and then this insecure bro comes along and acts like someone tittering about someone else's hairstyle is tReAtInG tHeM hOrRiBlY. He uses examples of *literal children* having behavioral issues as evidence that women are mean. Women changing their opinion is a problem? Um, intelligent people of whatever gender change their minds when presented with new information-- and that's a good thing. Why be needlessly stubborn when there's something new influencing one's viewpoint? That's just unreasonable to never change. He mostly sounds like my abusive ex after I made some sarcastic comments instead of doing what I actually wanted to do to him, which was much much, much worse.
That's a lot of words to say that you think women are justified in treating most men badly. No wonder men don't like you. And telling us how you were just nasty to your ex instead of giving into your wish to do violence to him isn't exactly disproving the central thesis here.
What man or woman wouldn't be tempted to punch a woman as obviously awful as Anna Cole? If she's telling the truth about her "abusive ex" it sounds like even the man she married couldn't restrain himself.
It's not rhetoric that motivates gender-based violence. It's behavior.
“How are men supposed to respect your opinion when your opinion can be reliably expected to repeatedly change over time?”
She works through the problem out loud, that’s why it changes. She needs help thinking and wants her opinion to align with everyone else’s. Opinion = theory and women want to turn their theories into laws. Helps guide us.
“Which of those various opinions are we supposed to respect?”
Respect the right opinion, or the one you agree with. Denounce and discuss why the wrong opinion is in fact, wrong.
“Are we supposed to respect all of them, or do we reject the previous opinions when the new opinion appears?”
Respect only the ones you want to see more of.
I’m Christian wife (26 with 2 boys), who had an opinion on make up and cosmetic surgery. My mom got cosmetic surgery on her figure. She became depressed. The truth of that hit me hard. I had to develop an opinion and take a stance. I turned into a granola girl, and my husband respected it. Made me want to do it more. I took a “natural oath” and vowed to never get fake nails, dye my hair, or plastic surgery.
Our opinions change based on temptation, men and women have that in common.
Opinions determine the level of morality and individual upholds.
Every now and then the LinkedIn algorithm serves up on trending "female leaders unpopular with most men and women". Everyone seethes but no-one ever asks why this is so. (:
I like women more than men and I’m straight, fairly masculine, and low status, but all of this in this article is still fair to say, it’s all very common behaviour from women.
Yes, women are nasty and mean to everyone, especially other women they find as competition. However, something I noticed growing up was that it was often the boys around us during puberty that trained many girls to be this way, or at least, they allowed a certain class of girls to do and say whatever they wanted. That class was girls with big breasts early on. From about 12 years of age, the girl with the boobs was instantly idolized. Boys would flock to her and she could be as mean and horrible as she wanted. As an athlete who was flat chested until 17, I learned early on that if I wanted males in my life, I needed to have manners. Laugh at their jokes. Engage in dialogue about sports and cars. Fortunately for me, I naturally love football, cars, guns, and most things male because the girls were also mean to me, so the boys were my refuge. Still, those endowed girls learned to shake their boobs and toss their hair and get what they want and I would blame the males for that. Now these women are 50 and those boobs are sagging, and they're downright nastier than ever and I feel badly for them, and even worse for their husbands whom they berate at every chance because that's how they've always behaved, for they never learned the arts of conversation and kindness. They only had their beauty, which paid them well until that beauty faded. Now they're faced with surgery, and even that isn't going to give them what they need to compete with fresher, younger, big boobs. Anyway, if you want people to treat you well, you need to train them to do so, and the earlier the better.
Yeah, I guess? Just something I noticed when I was young and now see it as an older woman. Those of us who are an 8-10 when young, like in our teens, don't learn manners in general. They get away with a lot because of their beauty and yes, male attention is key to that since that's part of the way we women organize our own hierarchy, so in that way it's our fault as well. Girls who are 6-8 in their teens but then move into the 8-10 later in life, usually because they physically develop slower (late bloomers?) have developed personality skills and then beauty, which is good because beauty does fade no matter when it's granted to you, however your personality in your elder years determines whether you're a matriarch with power, or a self-conscious wreck addicted to Botox. It's a blessing in many ways.
OK thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate the honest and sincere dialogue. I saw this myself as something of an ugly duckling. I didn't grow into my body and face until my last growth spurt around 19. My experience with women prior to that was completely different to what it's been like ever since. That difference absolutely has helped form my opinions of men and women.
Exactly! My relationship with men totally changed around 19 as well. Before that, I did happen to be a cheerleader, so that gave me some cred with both genders, but had a plain face and boyish body because I was also a gymnast. The boys weren't mean to me, but if I wanted their attention, I needed to engage with them, be kind, laugh, while my beautiful, busty counterparts could shit all over them and they'd come running to me for advice on how to "get her back." After I went to college, my body changed and suddenly, I was sought after by the males. By then, I'd learned how to talk to the opposite sex and treat them with respect. Not that I was perfect, but I've long been interested in people, getting to know them, and treating each other with dignity. Seems important in society.
I think we can assume that if Glen Powell is straight and likes women, it’s because he’s predominantly always been a specimen, and women have always been kind and deferential.
Other men of his physical caliber that don’t like women had to grow into their looks, and it’s hard if not impossible to jettison those formative memories.
When I read that article, and looked at the pictures of the men she thought liked women. They all looked dominant to me, and from my experience, dominant men do like women and all their little foibles. These were just alphas that take care of all females in the vicinity.
He’s probably not interested in your handicrafts, he’s just interested in giving you the time and attention you need as a female. The next female that wants to talk Twilight will also be given respectful attention.
patiently waiting throughout the whole article for the moment where i’m told this is satire.. as soon as you brought out the “the ironic thing is that I do genuinely like and appreciate women” i actually couldn’t stop laughing because say that sentence out loud??? like what????? does that not show how alien your tone is in this article
It does reveal what sort of reader you are. It is generally acknowledged that there are two types of reader: active and passive.
But you're the third option: the retarded reader.
You read yourself into your own solipsistic loop. Nothing in the article grabbed your attention until that sentence, and suddenly this single artefact became rife for the most deepest delves of extrapolation and exposition.
from the opening paragraph we see indicators of tone - even as a passive reader i’m sure you could visually pick up on the use of a rhetorical question and italics.
There is literally no tone here at all. Its monotone. Zero emotion. You're just trying the same emotional tone policing nonsense that makes men not like women. And on a post with no tone to boot.
What does my "tone" in a written post have to do with my personal behavior in day-to-day life? I can convincingly write a Guy de Maupassant pastiche, but I'm not even French. The world is what it is regardless of the approach I take to a particular article.
not quite sure which one of us is the 'eye of sauron' here: both are offering an individual view of 'what the world is', one is applying this to all women, whereas the other is simply offering rebuttal to the contrary - in its most basic form, 'not all women'. if anyone's the eye of sauron, i'd urge you to reconsider.
so.. are you saying this isn’t an opinion informed by the two personal examples you provided in your written post? tone reflects your opinion, particularly in sociological discussion
Correct. It is an opinion informed by more than 50 years of interaction with women, initially as a low-status male, then as a very high-status male. Those two personal examples are just that, examples. The number of exceptions I have observed are less than one percent of the thousands of women with whom I have interacted over more than five decades.
Empathetic women do exist, but they are exceptions to the rule. There are probably more female sociopaths than genuine empaths.
I do my best not to treat men badly, but I've seen plenty of examples of women treating men very badly indeed. Go to The Dadvocate on YouTube, where the hostess compiles and highlights many examples that have been shamelessly posted online.
You don't know what empathy is. Women are solipsistic. Don't confuse their concerns for the young, the weak, and the defenseless for empathy. They have zero empathy for the average man, and due to being "the weaker sex" will justify literally any female behavior on that basis.
not ‘their’. ‘my’. my concerns. my empathy. an empathy i even feel for you right now knowing that nothing i can say will make you reconsider, because you’ve clearly made up your mind. i sincerely hope you find someone who illuminates the feelings you have towards women, because everything you’ve just said has confirmed what i thought. next time use that brain of yours (which is clearly learned) to have a little more open discussion. all the best.
women only have empathy for illegal aliens and invaders and hate citizen men and want to make their life harder and lower their wages and then screetch "where have all the good men gone?" That is the most empathtic that women get.
host????? anything you put out on a website like substack has the ability to receive constructive criticism or at least point out areas for debate - i’ve been trying to respectfully put across points for discussion this whole time but okay
(4) five years?!?!? I always told you guys, Vox is an incurable romantic with rose tinted glasses. I think about 5 days would be my limit. And it was indeed about that for some years.
You’re onto something but I think your framing is off. The phenomenon you describe doesn’t mean men don’t like women. It actually describes what it means to be a man, as in Kipling’s “you will be a man, my son.”
Thank you Vox, your article has helped open my eyes and ears to things about females that had not even thought about. A lot of Women being more solipsistic makes more sense. The fact that many of us have had times where women have acted completely with no empathy is a lot more times than men. Also adding the fact that if a man acted like some women do to other men they would quickly get punched.
Just one question how much does culture and social rules affect this dynamic?
2 things (And I guess technology plays a factor) I was thinking.
1. The West when majority Christianity in the past restricted things like sex, marriage and divorce. Meaning a man and woman in theory needed to restrict themselves to one partner (obvious examples where this did not happen).
(Example of how things have change in the west, In America it wasn't until 1974 that women were allowed to apply for and own a credit card in their name, before that they needed their husbands to co sign it).
2. I notice in Asia (Mostly talking about North east Asians) and it is changing (for the worst), the way women and men treat each other. I (White male) get more respect from the average Asian woman (NE or SE) than I do from the average White woman, also it is generally nice to chat. It could be I am blind to the problems that Asian males have with Asian women.
YouTubers like Hoe_Math have it down (although can also be seen as misogynistic). It's hypergamy, that women are chasing the 8s, 9s and 10s. Those men are not treated with distain. It's the 7s and below that are continuous rejected by women, even those of lesser status.
Yup. I still like women because my baseline appreciation of every person is high but women have certainly treated me worse than have men. Usually I don't care because most social ties aren't so deep that it matters. But my first girlfriend was awful to me and freaked the fuck out the only time I ever sent the same energy back to her. I dumped her because to be with her I had to not care about her emotions but I didn't want to be a callous person.
So I've learned that a hard requirement for me to date a woman is she isn't awful to me. I just can't take a partner unseriously enough to ignore bad behavior in someone I'm binding my life to. Gaining status made this easier but bad behavior always crops up so most women aren't wife material.
Okay, I admit, after all the comments about that article, I clicked over. Well that was a mistake.
I am not a fan of female nature and even less so after reading this. Men are downright altruistic and wholesome compared to this shit.
this is the dumbest fucking thing ive ever read in my life.
I read this immediately after reading an article about a woman whose husband *repeatedly* drugged her, let various men rape her while she was unconscious without using protection, which exposed her to HIV among other serious health issues, accused her of cheating when she realized she had STDs... oh yeah, and some of the men raping her were neighbors, friends of the family, etc... and then this insecure bro comes along and acts like someone tittering about someone else's hairstyle is tReAtInG tHeM hOrRiBlY. He uses examples of *literal children* having behavioral issues as evidence that women are mean. Women changing their opinion is a problem? Um, intelligent people of whatever gender change their minds when presented with new information-- and that's a good thing. Why be needlessly stubborn when there's something new influencing one's viewpoint? That's just unreasonable to never change. He mostly sounds like my abusive ex after I made some sarcastic comments instead of doing what I actually wanted to do to him, which was much much, much worse.
That's a lot of words to say that you think women are justified in treating most men badly. No wonder men don't like you. And telling us how you were just nasty to your ex instead of giving into your wish to do violence to him isn't exactly disproving the central thesis here.
exactly--this is the kind of rhetoric that motivates gender-based violence
What man or woman wouldn't be tempted to punch a woman as obviously awful as Anna Cole? If she's telling the truth about her "abusive ex" it sounds like even the man she married couldn't restrain himself.
It's not rhetoric that motivates gender-based violence. It's behavior.
Relax. Just because you didn't understand it doesn't make it stupid. It's just over your head. Now, go back to the TV, you'll feel better.
This feels like reading an ingot refined from my very own thoughts. I reckon I have nothing better to say about this than 'bravo!'
“How are men supposed to respect your opinion when your opinion can be reliably expected to repeatedly change over time?”
She works through the problem out loud, that’s why it changes. She needs help thinking and wants her opinion to align with everyone else’s. Opinion = theory and women want to turn their theories into laws. Helps guide us.
“Which of those various opinions are we supposed to respect?”
Respect the right opinion, or the one you agree with. Denounce and discuss why the wrong opinion is in fact, wrong.
“Are we supposed to respect all of them, or do we reject the previous opinions when the new opinion appears?”
Respect only the ones you want to see more of.
I’m Christian wife (26 with 2 boys), who had an opinion on make up and cosmetic surgery. My mom got cosmetic surgery on her figure. She became depressed. The truth of that hit me hard. I had to develop an opinion and take a stance. I turned into a granola girl, and my husband respected it. Made me want to do it more. I took a “natural oath” and vowed to never get fake nails, dye my hair, or plastic surgery.
Our opinions change based on temptation, men and women have that in common.
Opinions determine the level of morality and individual upholds.
Every now and then the LinkedIn algorithm serves up on trending "female leaders unpopular with most men and women". Everyone seethes but no-one ever asks why this is so. (:
I like women more than men and I’m straight, fairly masculine, and low status, but all of this in this article is still fair to say, it’s all very common behaviour from women.
Yes, women are nasty and mean to everyone, especially other women they find as competition. However, something I noticed growing up was that it was often the boys around us during puberty that trained many girls to be this way, or at least, they allowed a certain class of girls to do and say whatever they wanted. That class was girls with big breasts early on. From about 12 years of age, the girl with the boobs was instantly idolized. Boys would flock to her and she could be as mean and horrible as she wanted. As an athlete who was flat chested until 17, I learned early on that if I wanted males in my life, I needed to have manners. Laugh at their jokes. Engage in dialogue about sports and cars. Fortunately for me, I naturally love football, cars, guns, and most things male because the girls were also mean to me, so the boys were my refuge. Still, those endowed girls learned to shake their boobs and toss their hair and get what they want and I would blame the males for that. Now these women are 50 and those boobs are sagging, and they're downright nastier than ever and I feel badly for them, and even worse for their husbands whom they berate at every chance because that's how they've always behaved, for they never learned the arts of conversation and kindness. They only had their beauty, which paid them well until that beauty faded. Now they're faced with surgery, and even that isn't going to give them what they need to compete with fresher, younger, big boobs. Anyway, if you want people to treat you well, you need to train them to do so, and the earlier the better.
So...it's still men's fault lol
Yeah, I guess? Just something I noticed when I was young and now see it as an older woman. Those of us who are an 8-10 when young, like in our teens, don't learn manners in general. They get away with a lot because of their beauty and yes, male attention is key to that since that's part of the way we women organize our own hierarchy, so in that way it's our fault as well. Girls who are 6-8 in their teens but then move into the 8-10 later in life, usually because they physically develop slower (late bloomers?) have developed personality skills and then beauty, which is good because beauty does fade no matter when it's granted to you, however your personality in your elder years determines whether you're a matriarch with power, or a self-conscious wreck addicted to Botox. It's a blessing in many ways.
OK thanks for the clarification, and I appreciate the honest and sincere dialogue. I saw this myself as something of an ugly duckling. I didn't grow into my body and face until my last growth spurt around 19. My experience with women prior to that was completely different to what it's been like ever since. That difference absolutely has helped form my opinions of men and women.
Exactly! My relationship with men totally changed around 19 as well. Before that, I did happen to be a cheerleader, so that gave me some cred with both genders, but had a plain face and boyish body because I was also a gymnast. The boys weren't mean to me, but if I wanted their attention, I needed to engage with them, be kind, laugh, while my beautiful, busty counterparts could shit all over them and they'd come running to me for advice on how to "get her back." After I went to college, my body changed and suddenly, I was sought after by the males. By then, I'd learned how to talk to the opposite sex and treat them with respect. Not that I was perfect, but I've long been interested in people, getting to know them, and treating each other with dignity. Seems important in society.
I think we can assume that if Glen Powell is straight and likes women, it’s because he’s predominantly always been a specimen, and women have always been kind and deferential.
Other men of his physical caliber that don’t like women had to grow into their looks, and it’s hard if not impossible to jettison those formative memories.
And then there’s the rest of us…
When I read that article, and looked at the pictures of the men she thought liked women. They all looked dominant to me, and from my experience, dominant men do like women and all their little foibles. These were just alphas that take care of all females in the vicinity.
He’s probably not interested in your handicrafts, he’s just interested in giving you the time and attention you need as a female. The next female that wants to talk Twilight will also be given respectful attention.
patiently waiting throughout the whole article for the moment where i’m told this is satire.. as soon as you brought out the “the ironic thing is that I do genuinely like and appreciate women” i actually couldn’t stop laughing because say that sentence out loud??? like what????? does that not show how alien your tone is in this article
It does reveal what sort of reader you are. It is generally acknowledged that there are two types of reader: active and passive.
But you're the third option: the retarded reader.
You read yourself into your own solipsistic loop. Nothing in the article grabbed your attention until that sentence, and suddenly this single artefact became rife for the most deepest delves of extrapolation and exposition.
Does that not show how retarded you are?
from the opening paragraph we see indicators of tone - even as a passive reader i’m sure you could visually pick up on the use of a rhetorical question and italics.
Passive/aggressive tone policing incoming
Did you? And who is we?
I'm sorry, I don't speak retarded.
did you not learn about rhetorical questions in high school or
Do you not know how to properly finish a sentence?
I have a master's degree in rhetoric. I learned a lot about rhetoric there.
clearly didn't learn how to have a genuine debate or discussion either but here we are
There is literally no tone here at all. Its monotone. Zero emotion. You're just trying the same emotional tone policing nonsense that makes men not like women. And on a post with no tone to boot.
What does my "tone" in a written post have to do with my personal behavior in day-to-day life? I can convincingly write a Guy de Maupassant pastiche, but I'm not even French. The world is what it is regardless of the approach I take to a particular article.
"The world is what it is regardless of the approach I take to a particular article."
Not to the solipsistic eye of Sauron, apparently.
not quite sure which one of us is the 'eye of sauron' here: both are offering an individual view of 'what the world is', one is applying this to all women, whereas the other is simply offering rebuttal to the contrary - in its most basic form, 'not all women'. if anyone's the eye of sauron, i'd urge you to reconsider.
You failed to clear the hurdle of understanding that rhetoric. Shibboleth failed.
You talk like Wormtongue.
Retard confirmed.
so.. are you saying this isn’t an opinion informed by the two personal examples you provided in your written post? tone reflects your opinion, particularly in sociological discussion
Correct. It is an opinion informed by more than 50 years of interaction with women, initially as a low-status male, then as a very high-status male. Those two personal examples are just that, examples. The number of exceptions I have observed are less than one percent of the thousands of women with whom I have interacted over more than five decades.
Empathetic women do exist, but they are exceptions to the rule. There are probably more female sociopaths than genuine empaths.
You're new here, aren't you?
The author is around your dad's age, and mature enough to have separated his feelings from the facts he is stating.
*Comes in swinging about with a katana blade*
C'mon guise, I'm not here to fight!
I do my best not to treat men badly, but I've seen plenty of examples of women treating men very badly indeed. Go to The Dadvocate on YouTube, where the hostess compiles and highlights many examples that have been shamelessly posted online.
You don't know what empathy is. Women are solipsistic. Don't confuse their concerns for the young, the weak, and the defenseless for empathy. They have zero empathy for the average man, and due to being "the weaker sex" will justify literally any female behavior on that basis.
not ‘their’. ‘my’. my concerns. my empathy. an empathy i even feel for you right now knowing that nothing i can say will make you reconsider, because you’ve clearly made up your mind. i sincerely hope you find someone who illuminates the feelings you have towards women, because everything you’ve just said has confirmed what i thought. next time use that brain of yours (which is clearly learned) to have a little more open discussion. all the best.
Banned for retardery. Go find somewhere else for your open discussion.
So you have 'empathized' him into an antagonistic position?
*wonka meme* Tell us more.
women only have empathy for illegal aliens and invaders and hate citizen men and want to make their life harder and lower their wages and then screetch "where have all the good men gone?" That is the most empathtic that women get.
This is the core of the left/right divide. The whole x axis of the political spectrum might as well be renamed to the War of the Sexes.
See, right now you're treating our host badly by showing zero respect.
host????? anything you put out on a website like substack has the ability to receive constructive criticism or at least point out areas for debate - i’ve been trying to respectfully put across points for discussion this whole time but okay
(4) five years?!?!? I always told you guys, Vox is an incurable romantic with rose tinted glasses. I think about 5 days would be my limit. And it was indeed about that for some years.
The husband/ wife scenes in A Throne of Bones reveal the Dark Lord's sweet side!
You’re onto something but I think your framing is off. The phenomenon you describe doesn’t mean men don’t like women. It actually describes what it means to be a man, as in Kipling’s “you will be a man, my son.”
What the hollywood woman means by liking women is not what we would mean by it. She means DEI promoting women.