"Failing to step up, especially when other men are without any thought to their own safety."
Read about a gent named Daniel Penny and get back to me about "stepping up." Sorry ladies, your politics generally helped this situation happen. Unless you're my family or my girl, nope, nobody is entitled to me "stepping up" and facing a charge from the upside down system in which we live.
On a related but lighter note: Do you think carrying a backpack is a Delta trait? I've been observing families at an amusement park all summer, and in family groups where the men appear to be deltas, the father is always carrying the family backpack/diaper bag. This also holds up among my friend group, where I've seen my friends' delta husbands serve as the family pack mule time and time again.
I contrast this with my sigma husband, who can usually only remember to carry something that directly affects him, unless I specifically ask him to carry it.
Softness in general, whether it's physically or mentally/emotionally. And it's picked up on by a very young age. I once made a passing reference to my three young daughters(the oldest was 14) about one of their friends' mother and father. One of my daughters piped up with, "Do you mean that 'blobby' man?" I asked what she meant, and she couldn't clarify, just repeating, "You know... He just seems...blobby."
The friends' father was clearly a gamma, or at best a low delta. He wasn't terribly overweight, but he was visibly soft and not well groomed. He also had a large display of Marvel figurines. Not a bad guy(he's a solid Christian, which helps a ton), but not attractive in the slightest.
I am not a chick, but I can definitely see more softness in millenial and zoomer guys. Combination of lack of activity, upbringing, terrible diet and who knows what kinds of chemicals in our food/ecosystem.
Indecisiveness: being a man means making decisions. If a man is indecisive often enough, he is seen as immature and childlike. He wants a mother.
Being a momma’s boy.
Failure to plan ahead. Lack of ambition. Complacency to the point of inertia.
Running from a disagreement or argument: if a colleague or, if you are on a date, an employee is being harassed or abused by a customer, please don’t go and hide with the rest of the girls. You don’t have to get involved. Just standing there and staring at the offensive individual is enough to de-escalate the situation.
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Please avoid telling a woman that because she makes more than you she can support you.
I won't even try to understand what a uhiq dark lord is trying to accomplish with this, but unleashing women to take stabs at the dark about what they think they like and humble brag has brought chaos not seen since the neitzche posts.
You're misunderstanding. I've been reading Vox since 09. My bookshelf is collecting castalia books. When I call him a uhiq sdl im not being satcastic. But as I said, I have no idea why he asked a question that he and most of his readers know the answer to.
Have you read the comments from the lady readers? They are sharing interesting and useful things about how they see men.
Even if lots of it is nothing new, it's good to hear it from them, especially for young men who haven't thought about it before and notice their habits are on the list.
Not everyone is a longtime reader of Manosphere/SSH material.
Saying 'I like a man who is confident' and 'I don't like a man who is indecisive' is not interesting or insightful. It is obvious. And the slathering on of delta praise for these insights is gross.
There were some genuinely good posts. Not because they were insightful but because they were surprisingly accurate.
A women sharing what makes her think a man is indecisive or confident is a useful perspective that you don't have as a man.
The fact that you jumped on a woman commenting about Gammas says something about your rank. Women AND Deltas find you embarrassing and cringe when you keep going past the point you should have shut up.
Gosh, you are right! Women don't ever know what they really want, which is great: now just take all the situations that these women said they found unappealing, and do exactly the things they said they didn't like. Maybe even double down.
Talk like a baby, dress like a child, treat your girl like your mom, vacillate between being spineless and being overbearing, refuse to make any decisions ever, and make sure to cry copiously in her presence. Be malicious to people who are smaller and weaker. Cling to her like a barnacle. Dominate every conversation, belittle her and her friends, and for good measure, publicly slap her in the face with food when she least expects it.
Then sit back and wait for the girls to line up to jump in your lap. They'll be cat-fighting each other for your attention, guaranteed. Do come back and let us know how it goes!
I will say that the further down I got in the thread the better the female responses got. Some were excellent. Some were just excuses to talk about how they owned that alpha male and everyone clapped.
The delta replies did not improve in quality however.
- Lack of standards. If his total criteria for women is just Not Fat + Not a Supreme Mega Bitch, it signals lack of self-awareness at best and desperation at worst.
- Self deprecating jokes that aren’t actually funny. Confident people can find genuine humor in their shortcomings, and if they can’t then have the good sense to keep quiet about it. A half-assed wisecrack that only inspires a polite laugh comes off as begging for emotional support and validation.
- Being indirect about intentions. It feels like watching a guy struggle at a vending machine with the numbers scratched off, inserting coins over and over, thinking IF ONLY he could press the right combination of buttons he’ll win the prize
- Trying to communicate like a girl or what they think girls want to hear. Things like using emojis, sending selfies, daily “Good morning/Sweet dreams!” texts.
In a more general sense, Alphas relate to groups differently, it’s hard to explain.
For example, I was on vacation with a large group of friends and mutual friends.
Guy A engaged with pretty much the whole group and found new girls to talk to everywhere we went.
Guy B mostly hovered around the girl in the group he was interested in.
We were discussing plans and B gets my name wrong. It didn’t bother me in the slightest, my name is uncommon and I barely spoke to the guy. I didn’t correct him.
Then A corrected him. B was a little confused and kinda apologized. I said it didn’t matter.
A said “It matters”
It wasn’t throwing his weight around, or white-knighting, or flirting. There wasn’t anything off-putting with B’s behavior either.
But A was paying attention to the group, including the people who didn’t offer any personal benefit to him (ie. a girl he had no interest in sleeping with). It was such a small thing but for some reason I haven’t forgotten it.
Guy A definitely sounds Alpha. He's right, and to reify why: Women are what matter most to the human race. Mater/Pater -> matter and pattern -> a man sets the patterns of a relationship and a woman matters to them. Thanks for sharing these insights.
It's a marker for poverty, because taking the time to brush and floss twice a day, and rinse your mouth after milky drinks, and so on shows low time preference. Until very recently, low-time preference men might struggle, but they weren't poor.
Also, the kind of mindset that, when struggling sets aside money to pay cash for at least once-yearly professional cleaning, rather than entertainment, a restaurant, or even food from the non-dented cans-and-top-ramen section, is also unknown among the poor.
And yes, gross teeth are gross. Do you want to kiss that mouth? Ick.
A gap between the two front teeth can be very attractive. John Fogarty in Creedence Clearwater Revival's video for "Looking Out My Back Door" comes to mind. My husband had one too, although it has since closed up, alas.
Height doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. The guy I liked who blurted out the casual racism was shorter, but until that point he had a lot of character and I thought he was cute, so his height didn't matter.
One thing that really weirded me out once though was a different guy who not only was shorter, but had really small hands. It was like holding hands with a little kid. Instant ick.
Don't be clingy. Having a guy around is nice, but not constantly to the point where you feel like he's smothering you. You both should be able to go hang out with your own friends at times without the other one feeling like you don't want to include them.
Don't be a jerk, whether via your ego or your insecurity. Having a guy that acts like he's better than others is as unattractive as a guy that talks bad about everybody just to make himself feel better. Pointing out people's faults makes me think you're doing that to me in your head or behind my back. If you have a problem say it, don't pussyfoot around and be all passive-aggressive.
Character matters. Granted, your outward attributes are what draws us to you but if your character doesn't match that's an immediate dismissal to me. Pretty boys may be nice to look at but relationships are about more than looks. If I can't trust you or count on you what's the point to being with you?
Lastly, don't be a drama queen. This is more for the Deltas, probably, but a man shouldn't act like a woman where he just WON'T LET SOMETHING GO. If somebody did you wrong either deal with it or move on, don't keep carrying it around and bringing it up. That's what women do, not men.
If we are at a social, and the guy can't go off on his own to make conversation, or can't let me have a conversation without him present. Yes, I understand we arrived together, yes we are dating, but we are not conjoined twins. This is what the girl is supposed to do in unfamiliar situations, not the other way around. This is quintessential cringey behavior, and not something a high status male would dream of doing.
I think it smells like low confidence doing it like this, if the guy is higher status you would not leave him alone because YOU don't want him around and seeming available.
If the guy is the first one to try to keep the other one close enough to not be approached, he is writing on his forehead that he is more afraid of you finding someone better than you are afraid of him finding someone better.
I will echo everyone saying confidence is a high-status tell. So is competence. If a man knows how to do stuff, or is willing to figure it out, he is a solid and attractive Delta, at least!
My estimation of a man always goes way down when he lets women's opinions affect him. I've seen a man stomp out of the room when his daughter made an unintentionally derisive comment. He would also go to pieces if his wife started crying during a confrontation, accusing her of manipulation. If you hesitate or back down from a decision because a woman showed the slightest bit of resistance, you are low-status.
Relationship-wise, I'm thinking of three men I encountered before meeting my husband. One was definitely a Bravo; no interest in being in charge of everything, but had all women swooning over him. (And the men too, platonically!) I was merely one of them, and him not pursuing me whatsoever only made my attraction worse! He eventually picked someone else, but it took me a long time to get over him.
I met another guy at a church conference. He was probably an Omega, but everyone was kind to him and tried to include him. He would ask to walk me back from the cafeteria and sit next to me sometimes. I was nice and tried to give him a chance, but he gave me major ick. He might have been actually mentally disabled somehow, but he definitely was not as intelligent as me, and he was also super oblivious to the fact I wasn't attracted to him. (I was too nice to tell him outright.) From that experience I learned that it's low-status to chase a girl around when she's not chasing you. (He finally got the hint after several years of seeing me at that conference!)
I met the third guy on a dating site. He sent me walls of text about how his life was hard, and I responded with compassion and a desire to help. He took this as a green light to begin a courtship. I agreed because, again, I thought I ought to give the sweet guy a chance. Plus maybe I could rescue him!
We texted and had a phone call and a Skype call, and both calls left me with a knot in my stomach, because he had talked about himself, nonstop, and had not asked me a single question. Nice girl though I was, I just couldn't get over the ick, and broke up with him over text. Looking back, he was probably a Gamma, though he was man enough to take the rejection without punishing me for it.
Soon after, I met my husband on that same dating site, and he convinced me of his Delta status by being honest, competent, and strong. He didn't fall apart if I questioned him or if I cried. And he was very respectful and honorable every step of the courtship process. Yet he still had that sweetness that I like, but that an Alpha is missing. ❤️
Your first anecdote of man everyone is in love with, but doesn't want to be in charge. Probably is a wounded Alpha who was traumatized into avoiding responsibility. Or too selfish/lazy.
Bravos absolutely get the ladies. They are so insanely charming, and confident around both men and women. They just work for the Alpha, that's all. And if you've ever watched a Bravo enforce the rules of the group on a lower status man you'll understand why women fall for them. They don't hesitate at all!
I’ve been married to Whiskey6 for 21 years but we do have a teenage daughter so here are a few things from my conversations with her:
- if he can’t make plans. If a woman has thrown out easy - hey do you want to go to the bookstore sometime to look at the books you just recommended. He should jump on that and set a time and date.
-Knew one guy who used to say “ask me a question” because he wanted to talk about himself. Ask her questions.
- making fun of other girls’ appearances. If you say bad things about others, girls will assume you are talking bad about them behind your back. Save the remarks about how unattractive (as possibly not female) Michelle Obama is for your buddies. Don’t point out ugly women.
- not getting social cues. If your date at a gathering starts mentioning she’s tired/ has to get going/ etc don’t start another conversation with someone else.
- complaining about “rich people” or mentioning that you can’t afford something. Talk about what you are working towards, not what you don’t have.
For me most of the tells for an Alpha are positive. Natural Alphas are instantly attractive; I can't take my eyes off them. They are like magnets.
Curiously, they can still appear foolish if they get guru-itis and are constantly establishing their status or using their status to grift. They can also become tiresome if their personality is too overbearing. (Think of Frank Sinatra trying to force his daughter into the role of star musician.) But they are still magnetic.
Even a less obvious Alpha (or Sigma) still exerts a subtle "pull" which catches me off guard. Once when talking to a perfect stranger at a dinner party, I found myself saying, "I feel as if I've always known you." Oops!
As for what brings a man down, one obvious tell is hatred, fear, or contempt for women. Contempt for any subordinate that accepts their role is another tell. An Alpha wouldn't pick on a retarded guy, for example, or at least not to excess. They feel genuine affection and loyalty to those below them, and they are generally kind and uplift the people around them.
Tears are not always a tell - I have seen an Alpha guru-type moved to tears by a sentimental story he was telling. (The key here is that HE was telling the story, and everyone around him was also moved to tears.)
Excess weight or an ugly appearance can reduce status but are not a perfect tell. Rewatch the classic "crazy hot" matrix video - that guy is probably a Bravo. Rodney Dangerfield also comes across as at least a Bravo to me when he's doing interviews.
Body language is an instant tell. There's no way Andrew Tate is a real Alpha, for example. He always looks like he's on guard, and his eyes are fearful. Ick.
Trying to establish dominance, but with unnecessary tension or anger, is an instant Gamma tell. An Alpha moves naturally and is very relaxed unless he is focused on overcoming a genuine challenge. In fact, utter confidence and relaxation in every situation will skyrocket your status regardless of how you look.
"Feminine" traits like long hair are not a tell. Think of Fabio. Under-grooming is not a tell. Think of Rambo. It's all about context and knowing social cues. (Inability to follow social cues is an Omega tell.)
Being afraid to delegate is a tell. An Alpha doesn't feel threatened by another man's skills. His manhood is not threatened if he hires a handyman to fix the kitchen sink, for example. That's a Delta or Gamma tell.
Other Gamma tells include sarcasm, excessive self-criticism, irony, black-pilling, hatred in excess, losing your temper when baited, or taking the lead in a try-hard way. Fear of conflict or failure to take the lead are Delta tells; however, they will fight if they have to.
Perhaps he has to be on stimulants or something in order to not pee himself from anxiety whenever it's time for him to perform. Hence the crazy eyes and the fast talking.
To me it seems like Tristan Tate is naturally higher status than Andrew.
About long hair, my friend that gets the most girls on our group has really long hair, and his hair is naturally great, he doesn't care that much for it.
But I think whenever a man does something that COULD be seen as a little bit more feminine, he has to be really manly in other areas to get away with it. He is also elegant, wealthy and a musician.
Gammas will look at him and think it is his long hair or his tattoos that are the reason he is more popular with the ladies, which is hilarious.
Now, a gamma we expelled from the group for gamma behaviour years ago, without even knowing about the SSH, has let his hair grow, straightened it and got some tattoos and he looks like a buffoon.
Wish I could send the pictures of the original and the gamma imitation, you could see it from a mile away.
My dad was 6’3” long hair & sideburns and my Aunt said she went to a concert with him once and could see women checking him out and trying to assess if she was his girlfriend. She perceived they assumed he was “somebody” and she went out of her way to let one or more know he was available. When he was managing construction workers he always had his hair up, hidden under a baseball cap for safety and professionalism I guess.
I wasn't as familiar with him, so I watched a couple of videos out of curiosity.
He comes across as a Bravo who has lifted himself up to Alpha - not a magnetic natural like Trump but someone who has lifted himself up by his bootstraps by overcoming suffering. Respectable.
Bravo to Alpha? That’s interesting. I can see your point about the former Bravo. I guess the accomplishments of becoming a world champion kick boxer and then going from broke to starting a shady $multi-million business is a way to start to change how he and others view his status. Him and his brother are an interesting case study.
I think Tristan is attractive, Andrew is not. There is something off about Andrew - I don't think he's an Alpha either. And he's definitely not a Sigma. He talks too much and too fast, if media is even remotely to be believed he has to get girls drunk in order to sleep with them and his sunglasses are (I suspect) to hide the fact that he cannot maintain eye contact but will flinch and look away. He comes off as tense and nervous, while Tristan on the other hand is always cool as ice.
I think I can identify an a bravo priest by his patience during confession. The alpha one seems less interested in feelings and has a different leadership style. I actually kind of prefer the Bravo to be honest. Neither one creeps me out or is necessarily worse, though. Just a different style. I think Delta priests normally do the whole Russian thing where they just say nothing basically and read the prayer of absolution. These are true for Orthodox priests. I don't know if I've ever met a gamma one.
I have met a gamma Catholic priest who, during confession, told me to repent of my unconscious racism. SJWs are basically assumed to be gamma in my book.
At work, a gamma tells you to do something and then is upset when you do it.
I think I can identify bravos by seeing them so cheerful in groups without being shy. Also, they seem to modify the behavior of those around them in a non-gamma way, but are not the ones making up the rules. The rule makers are the alphas. The bravos help the deltas follow orders.
This one is tone deaf:
"Failing to step up, especially when other men are without any thought to their own safety."
Read about a gent named Daniel Penny and get back to me about "stepping up." Sorry ladies, your politics generally helped this situation happen. Unless you're my family or my girl, nope, nobody is entitled to me "stepping up" and facing a charge from the upside down system in which we live.
All fair and good points.
Does a bucket hat bring a man down the hierarchy? Does it depend how it is worn?
yes. Only women wear those
On a related but lighter note: Do you think carrying a backpack is a Delta trait? I've been observing families at an amusement park all summer, and in family groups where the men appear to be deltas, the father is always carrying the family backpack/diaper bag. This also holds up among my friend group, where I've seen my friends' delta husbands serve as the family pack mule time and time again.
I contrast this with my sigma husband, who can usually only remember to carry something that directly affects him, unless I specifically ask him to carry it.
That makes a lot of sense! Deltas are the pack mules of society.
Doubly so when the guy is in a suit jacket with a backpack going through an airport. Just like, WTF, dude? Is your suit that cheap?
Softness in general, whether it's physically or mentally/emotionally. And it's picked up on by a very young age. I once made a passing reference to my three young daughters(the oldest was 14) about one of their friends' mother and father. One of my daughters piped up with, "Do you mean that 'blobby' man?" I asked what she meant, and she couldn't clarify, just repeating, "You know... He just seems...blobby."
The friends' father was clearly a gamma, or at best a low delta. He wasn't terribly overweight, but he was visibly soft and not well groomed. He also had a large display of Marvel figurines. Not a bad guy(he's a solid Christian, which helps a ton), but not attractive in the slightest.
Brutal.
I am not a chick, but I can definitely see more softness in millenial and zoomer guys. Combination of lack of activity, upbringing, terrible diet and who knows what kinds of chemicals in our food/ecosystem.
Even very little kids can pick up on the basic SSH!
Indecisiveness: being a man means making decisions. If a man is indecisive often enough, he is seen as immature and childlike. He wants a mother.
Being a momma’s boy.
Failure to plan ahead. Lack of ambition. Complacency to the point of inertia.
Running from a disagreement or argument: if a colleague or, if you are on a date, an employee is being harassed or abused by a customer, please don’t go and hide with the rest of the girls. You don’t have to get involved. Just standing there and staring at the offensive individual is enough to de-escalate the situation.
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Please avoid telling a woman that because she makes more than you she can support you.
Indecisiveness, being a momma's boy, failure to plan ahead... these are all turn-offs for men, too.
Floodgates opened.
I won't even try to understand what a uhiq dark lord is trying to accomplish with this, but unleashing women to take stabs at the dark about what they think they like and humble brag has brought chaos not seen since the neitzche posts.
What if this is just a test of the men? Who can follow orders and who cannot?
Gammas really can't help themselves, can they?
You're misunderstanding. I've been reading Vox since 09. My bookshelf is collecting castalia books. When I call him a uhiq sdl im not being satcastic. But as I said, I have no idea why he asked a question that he and most of his readers know the answer to.
Have you read the comments from the lady readers? They are sharing interesting and useful things about how they see men.
Even if lots of it is nothing new, it's good to hear it from them, especially for young men who haven't thought about it before and notice their habits are on the list.
Not everyone is a longtime reader of Manosphere/SSH material.
Saying 'I like a man who is confident' and 'I don't like a man who is indecisive' is not interesting or insightful. It is obvious. And the slathering on of delta praise for these insights is gross.
There were some genuinely good posts. Not because they were insightful but because they were surprisingly accurate.
A women sharing what makes her think a man is indecisive or confident is a useful perspective that you don't have as a man.
The fact that you jumped on a woman commenting about Gammas says something about your rank. Women AND Deltas find you embarrassing and cringe when you keep going past the point you should have shut up.
Nobody here cares that you can't wrap your head around it.
It’s a common retard tell to assume their limited cognitive ability is somehow relevant to anything.
Gosh, you are right! Women don't ever know what they really want, which is great: now just take all the situations that these women said they found unappealing, and do exactly the things they said they didn't like. Maybe even double down.
Talk like a baby, dress like a child, treat your girl like your mom, vacillate between being spineless and being overbearing, refuse to make any decisions ever, and make sure to cry copiously in her presence. Be malicious to people who are smaller and weaker. Cling to her like a barnacle. Dominate every conversation, belittle her and her friends, and for good measure, publicly slap her in the face with food when she least expects it.
Then sit back and wait for the girls to line up to jump in your lap. They'll be cat-fighting each other for your attention, guaranteed. Do come back and let us know how it goes!
I will say that the further down I got in the thread the better the female responses got. Some were excellent. Some were just excuses to talk about how they owned that alpha male and everyone clapped.
The delta replies did not improve in quality however.
Wrong saloon partner.
Tell us you’re low status without telling us you’re low status. You’re not only wrong, but snarky about it.
In a dating context
- Lack of standards. If his total criteria for women is just Not Fat + Not a Supreme Mega Bitch, it signals lack of self-awareness at best and desperation at worst.
- Self deprecating jokes that aren’t actually funny. Confident people can find genuine humor in their shortcomings, and if they can’t then have the good sense to keep quiet about it. A half-assed wisecrack that only inspires a polite laugh comes off as begging for emotional support and validation.
- Being indirect about intentions. It feels like watching a guy struggle at a vending machine with the numbers scratched off, inserting coins over and over, thinking IF ONLY he could press the right combination of buttons he’ll win the prize
- Trying to communicate like a girl or what they think girls want to hear. Things like using emojis, sending selfies, daily “Good morning/Sweet dreams!” texts.
In a more general sense, Alphas relate to groups differently, it’s hard to explain.
For example, I was on vacation with a large group of friends and mutual friends.
Guy A engaged with pretty much the whole group and found new girls to talk to everywhere we went.
Guy B mostly hovered around the girl in the group he was interested in.
We were discussing plans and B gets my name wrong. It didn’t bother me in the slightest, my name is uncommon and I barely spoke to the guy. I didn’t correct him.
Then A corrected him. B was a little confused and kinda apologized. I said it didn’t matter.
A said “It matters”
It wasn’t throwing his weight around, or white-knighting, or flirting. There wasn’t anything off-putting with B’s behavior either.
But A was paying attention to the group, including the people who didn’t offer any personal benefit to him (ie. a girl he had no interest in sleeping with). It was such a small thing but for some reason I haven’t forgotten it.
Guy A definitely sounds Alpha. He's right, and to reify why: Women are what matter most to the human race. Mater/Pater -> matter and pattern -> a man sets the patterns of a relationship and a woman matters to them. Thanks for sharing these insights.
Also promiscuity. Sleeping around shows he’s a slave to his basal instincts and doesn’t value his own dignity.
Really extreme promiscuity in a guy can give the "ick" but it's not about status in the SSH.
It's more that he's a walking health hazard and/or a serial heartbreaker.
This would really be true if all of them are low-tier women. I won't be impressed if he's a chubby chaser.
Nonsense. You're rationalizing now.
Having opportunities and shopping around a little is one thing. But if his body count exceeds his age he’s got some kind of issue
"High status" and "Morally upright" are not the same thing.
If we’re talking about what makes men less desirable in women’s opinions, then promiscuity absolutely can be a detractor. It’s like addict behavior.
Does having 50 previous partners make a man a less competent or an ineffective leader among men?
No, but neither does half the stuff women have posted about.
Does it tarnish his luster for women? Yes, it can make Prince Charming seem like a well polished creep.
Would you rather be lied to by such a Prince Charming or in a close and honest relationship with him? How do you think he got the title?
This is gold.
Emotional dysregulation. That's the big one, followed by skivving off. Also bad teeth, but that's just an ick/poverty thing.
Does bad teeth include spacing, or just poor oral hygiene?
It's a marker for poverty, because taking the time to brush and floss twice a day, and rinse your mouth after milky drinks, and so on shows low time preference. Until very recently, low-time preference men might struggle, but they weren't poor.
Also, the kind of mindset that, when struggling sets aside money to pay cash for at least once-yearly professional cleaning, rather than entertainment, a restaurant, or even food from the non-dented cans-and-top-ramen section, is also unknown among the poor.
And yes, gross teeth are gross. Do you want to kiss that mouth? Ick.
How are deep acne scars perceived?
A gap between the two front teeth can be very attractive. John Fogarty in Creedence Clearwater Revival's video for "Looking Out My Back Door" comes to mind. My husband had one too, although it has since closed up, alas.
Yes. Get them fixed.
Don't see why it wouldn't. Women are holistic and if it gives her the ick that's how it is.
Oh and for all the amazonian- or valkyriesque- women out there: Being short. Sorry gentlemen.
Or too tall. There's a point at which you become freakishly tall. Too bad, since nobody can affect their height.
I'm a tall woman, and I've had crushes on shorter men before. But they compensated for it by being muscular, handsome, and of good character.
Height doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. The guy I liked who blurted out the casual racism was shorter, but until that point he had a lot of character and I thought he was cute, so his height didn't matter.
One thing that really weirded me out once though was a different guy who not only was shorter, but had really small hands. It was like holding hands with a little kid. Instant ick.
Don't be clingy. Having a guy around is nice, but not constantly to the point where you feel like he's smothering you. You both should be able to go hang out with your own friends at times without the other one feeling like you don't want to include them.
Don't be a jerk, whether via your ego or your insecurity. Having a guy that acts like he's better than others is as unattractive as a guy that talks bad about everybody just to make himself feel better. Pointing out people's faults makes me think you're doing that to me in your head or behind my back. If you have a problem say it, don't pussyfoot around and be all passive-aggressive.
Character matters. Granted, your outward attributes are what draws us to you but if your character doesn't match that's an immediate dismissal to me. Pretty boys may be nice to look at but relationships are about more than looks. If I can't trust you or count on you what's the point to being with you?
Lastly, don't be a drama queen. This is more for the Deltas, probably, but a man shouldn't act like a woman where he just WON'T LET SOMETHING GO. If somebody did you wrong either deal with it or move on, don't keep carrying it around and bringing it up. That's what women do, not men.
Hovering. Helicoptering, etc.
If we are at a social, and the guy can't go off on his own to make conversation, or can't let me have a conversation without him present. Yes, I understand we arrived together, yes we are dating, but we are not conjoined twins. This is what the girl is supposed to do in unfamiliar situations, not the other way around. This is quintessential cringey behavior, and not something a high status male would dream of doing.
This is really a thing?
Yeah. First boyfriend did this at family and friend gatherings, even when majority were his friends primarily.
I think it smells like low confidence doing it like this, if the guy is higher status you would not leave him alone because YOU don't want him around and seeming available.
If the guy is the first one to try to keep the other one close enough to not be approached, he is writing on his forehead that he is more afraid of you finding someone better than you are afraid of him finding someone better.
Scarcity mindset is also a low-status marker though.
I will echo everyone saying confidence is a high-status tell. So is competence. If a man knows how to do stuff, or is willing to figure it out, he is a solid and attractive Delta, at least!
My estimation of a man always goes way down when he lets women's opinions affect him. I've seen a man stomp out of the room when his daughter made an unintentionally derisive comment. He would also go to pieces if his wife started crying during a confrontation, accusing her of manipulation. If you hesitate or back down from a decision because a woman showed the slightest bit of resistance, you are low-status.
Relationship-wise, I'm thinking of three men I encountered before meeting my husband. One was definitely a Bravo; no interest in being in charge of everything, but had all women swooning over him. (And the men too, platonically!) I was merely one of them, and him not pursuing me whatsoever only made my attraction worse! He eventually picked someone else, but it took me a long time to get over him.
I met another guy at a church conference. He was probably an Omega, but everyone was kind to him and tried to include him. He would ask to walk me back from the cafeteria and sit next to me sometimes. I was nice and tried to give him a chance, but he gave me major ick. He might have been actually mentally disabled somehow, but he definitely was not as intelligent as me, and he was also super oblivious to the fact I wasn't attracted to him. (I was too nice to tell him outright.) From that experience I learned that it's low-status to chase a girl around when she's not chasing you. (He finally got the hint after several years of seeing me at that conference!)
I met the third guy on a dating site. He sent me walls of text about how his life was hard, and I responded with compassion and a desire to help. He took this as a green light to begin a courtship. I agreed because, again, I thought I ought to give the sweet guy a chance. Plus maybe I could rescue him!
We texted and had a phone call and a Skype call, and both calls left me with a knot in my stomach, because he had talked about himself, nonstop, and had not asked me a single question. Nice girl though I was, I just couldn't get over the ick, and broke up with him over text. Looking back, he was probably a Gamma, though he was man enough to take the rejection without punishing me for it.
Soon after, I met my husband on that same dating site, and he convinced me of his Delta status by being honest, competent, and strong. He didn't fall apart if I questioned him or if I cried. And he was very respectful and honorable every step of the courtship process. Yet he still had that sweetness that I like, but that an Alpha is missing. ❤️
Best comment I've seen yet! Thank you!
This was the most helpful comment I've seen yet. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
You're welcome, and thank you!
Your first anecdote of man everyone is in love with, but doesn't want to be in charge. Probably is a wounded Alpha who was traumatized into avoiding responsibility. Or too selfish/lazy.
Bravos absolutely get the ladies. They are so insanely charming, and confident around both men and women. They just work for the Alpha, that's all. And if you've ever watched a Bravo enforce the rules of the group on a lower status man you'll understand why women fall for them. They don't hesitate at all!
Nope, he was one of the most self-confident men I've ever met, and the opposite of selfish and lazy. He'd lead if asked to, but didn't seek it.
I’ve been married to Whiskey6 for 21 years but we do have a teenage daughter so here are a few things from my conversations with her:
- if he can’t make plans. If a woman has thrown out easy - hey do you want to go to the bookstore sometime to look at the books you just recommended. He should jump on that and set a time and date.
-Knew one guy who used to say “ask me a question” because he wanted to talk about himself. Ask her questions.
- making fun of other girls’ appearances. If you say bad things about others, girls will assume you are talking bad about them behind your back. Save the remarks about how unattractive (as possibly not female) Michelle Obama is for your buddies. Don’t point out ugly women.
- not getting social cues. If your date at a gathering starts mentioning she’s tired/ has to get going/ etc don’t start another conversation with someone else.
- complaining about “rich people” or mentioning that you can’t afford something. Talk about what you are working towards, not what you don’t have.
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For me most of the tells for an Alpha are positive. Natural Alphas are instantly attractive; I can't take my eyes off them. They are like magnets.
Curiously, they can still appear foolish if they get guru-itis and are constantly establishing their status or using their status to grift. They can also become tiresome if their personality is too overbearing. (Think of Frank Sinatra trying to force his daughter into the role of star musician.) But they are still magnetic.
Even a less obvious Alpha (or Sigma) still exerts a subtle "pull" which catches me off guard. Once when talking to a perfect stranger at a dinner party, I found myself saying, "I feel as if I've always known you." Oops!
As for what brings a man down, one obvious tell is hatred, fear, or contempt for women. Contempt for any subordinate that accepts their role is another tell. An Alpha wouldn't pick on a retarded guy, for example, or at least not to excess. They feel genuine affection and loyalty to those below them, and they are generally kind and uplift the people around them.
Tears are not always a tell - I have seen an Alpha guru-type moved to tears by a sentimental story he was telling. (The key here is that HE was telling the story, and everyone around him was also moved to tears.)
Excess weight or an ugly appearance can reduce status but are not a perfect tell. Rewatch the classic "crazy hot" matrix video - that guy is probably a Bravo. Rodney Dangerfield also comes across as at least a Bravo to me when he's doing interviews.
Body language is an instant tell. There's no way Andrew Tate is a real Alpha, for example. He always looks like he's on guard, and his eyes are fearful. Ick.
Trying to establish dominance, but with unnecessary tension or anger, is an instant Gamma tell. An Alpha moves naturally and is very relaxed unless he is focused on overcoming a genuine challenge. In fact, utter confidence and relaxation in every situation will skyrocket your status regardless of how you look.
"Feminine" traits like long hair are not a tell. Think of Fabio. Under-grooming is not a tell. Think of Rambo. It's all about context and knowing social cues. (Inability to follow social cues is an Omega tell.)
Being afraid to delegate is a tell. An Alpha doesn't feel threatened by another man's skills. His manhood is not threatened if he hires a handyman to fix the kitchen sink, for example. That's a Delta or Gamma tell.
Other Gamma tells include sarcasm, excessive self-criticism, irony, black-pilling, hatred in excess, losing your temper when baited, or taking the lead in a try-hard way. Fear of conflict or failure to take the lead are Delta tells; however, they will fight if they have to.
Excellent points. Being aware of false tells is just as important as knowing the real signs.
Tate gives me the ick too.
Andrew Tate has crazy eyes and a weak chin. After assuming he was an alpha Chad I was shocked to actually see a picture of him.
Perhaps he has to be on stimulants or something in order to not pee himself from anxiety whenever it's time for him to perform. Hence the crazy eyes and the fast talking.
To me it seems like Tristan Tate is naturally higher status than Andrew.
About long hair, my friend that gets the most girls on our group has really long hair, and his hair is naturally great, he doesn't care that much for it.
But I think whenever a man does something that COULD be seen as a little bit more feminine, he has to be really manly in other areas to get away with it. He is also elegant, wealthy and a musician.
Gammas will look at him and think it is his long hair or his tattoos that are the reason he is more popular with the ladies, which is hilarious.
Now, a gamma we expelled from the group for gamma behaviour years ago, without even knowing about the SSH, has let his hair grow, straightened it and got some tattoos and he looks like a buffoon.
Wish I could send the pictures of the original and the gamma imitation, you could see it from a mile away.
My dad was 6’3” long hair & sideburns and my Aunt said she went to a concert with him once and could see women checking him out and trying to assess if she was his girlfriend. She perceived they assumed he was “somebody” and she went out of her way to let one or more know he was available. When he was managing construction workers he always had his hair up, hidden under a baseball cap for safety and professionalism I guess.
I wasn't as familiar with him, so I watched a couple of videos out of curiosity.
He comes across as a Bravo who has lifted himself up to Alpha - not a magnetic natural like Trump but someone who has lifted himself up by his bootstraps by overcoming suffering. Respectable.
Bravo to Alpha? That’s interesting. I can see your point about the former Bravo. I guess the accomplishments of becoming a world champion kick boxer and then going from broke to starting a shady $multi-million business is a way to start to change how he and others view his status. Him and his brother are an interesting case study.
I think Tristan is attractive, Andrew is not. There is something off about Andrew - I don't think he's an Alpha either. And he's definitely not a Sigma. He talks too much and too fast, if media is even remotely to be believed he has to get girls drunk in order to sleep with them and his sunglasses are (I suspect) to hide the fact that he cannot maintain eye contact but will flinch and look away. He comes off as tense and nervous, while Tristan on the other hand is always cool as ice.
Iirc the sunglasses are due to light sensitivity from a detached retina (kickboxing injury).
I think I can identify an a bravo priest by his patience during confession. The alpha one seems less interested in feelings and has a different leadership style. I actually kind of prefer the Bravo to be honest. Neither one creeps me out or is necessarily worse, though. Just a different style. I think Delta priests normally do the whole Russian thing where they just say nothing basically and read the prayer of absolution. These are true for Orthodox priests. I don't know if I've ever met a gamma one.
I have met a gamma Catholic priest who, during confession, told me to repent of my unconscious racism. SJWs are basically assumed to be gamma in my book.
At work, a gamma tells you to do something and then is upset when you do it.
I think I can identify bravos by seeing them so cheerful in groups without being shy. Also, they seem to modify the behavior of those around them in a non-gamma way, but are not the ones making up the rules. The rule makers are the alphas. The bravos help the deltas follow orders.