Large states were already split by the slow speed & high cost of communication networks, it became impossible for one power centre to effectively administrate distant provinces & coordinate armies. Rough choices either way: split, or bleed at the edges.
The system of co-Emperors was already long-established out of necessity. Theodosius was too young, but one of his proven generals would have almost certainly been a better choice from a military perspective. Of course, then he might have faced a civil war; sometimes there are no good options.
"The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to "a level of respective incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."
I started a new job last week. I am in a role that requires a Bravo, and my boss is in a role that requires an Alpha. We are both Deltas. What could go wrong…
Would it make you feel any better to know that I’ve not seen any sign of an alpha in years at my place of work? Back when I started around 2001 there were a fair number of them, now there’s a very thin leaven of Bravos, lots of Deltas, and more Gammas than an organization needs. Hmm, the stock was a lot better in those days too. I wonder if there’s a connection.
But you may be overestimating what your role requires. At least I hope so. My group ran pretty well with me as Bravo in an NCO role and my old boss as the very solid and extremely detail-oriented Delta. Now that boss has been replaced by another Bravo after he retired. The one thing a Delta boss really can’t do is inspire their subordinates to be better. A Bravo can do that, a little, but an Alpha can do that a lot. I’ve never had a Sigma boss.
Does your boss recognize this? is so it could just be a stretch. I am assuming it is a largr new implementation.
if it isn't then you might be over estimating the need. Delta's can do "keep the lights on" but if you are implementing nee with lots of people then an Alpha id needed to drive.
The mentoring for those that struggle with decisiveness is to remember that if you make the wrong call no one is going to die. You are not calling in air support or artillery danger close or determining life saving medical procedures.
Don't over think it and trust yourself. With practice it will get less stressful.
More decisiveness means more mistakes. My boss has made some decisions that had terrible consequences, putting out a fire at the time, then losing lots of money going forward.
But that is in the context of the many big decisions involved in polishing an epic scale technical turd with our website, all while losing traffic and employees. He doesn't bat 1000, but he has 1000 coming at him fast all the time anyway. A ditherer in his position would drown. In balls. Bad way to go.
Right. But, critical to keep the heat off the Deltas and Gammas doing the work.
Some Air Force pilots claim to be able to run any organization. Most of them are correct.
Pilots know how to make decisions--many times quick ones--often with little info. They figure out who are the best SMEs, get the best Bravo they can working for them to keep the internal mechanisms running at top form, and then go about keeping the garbage from falling on top of their people. The good ones take the heat if something goes wrong, but reap accolades when it goes well. Their willingness to take the stick and make decisions, even if it might be the wrong one, is a key to leadership.
I worked directly for an Alpha before, and found it very stressful, because I am not a natural Bravo. But I appreciated the clear instructions and demands he gave. I probably will now have to expect a lot less of that.
I believe one professor I had was a Delta, and he fit his role very well because he was actually an adjunct professor the university hired in a hurry just to teach two classes. He was actually a great guy. Friendly, approachable, and always willing to offer advice to us young folks. But he never tried to work his way into a full time professorship because he understood he couldn’t balance that with the other professional responsibilities in his life.
One massive tell was that when me and another student (who was a Gamma) got into a verbal confrontation during class, our professor just stepped back and let it happen. Probably because he preferred mopping up any mess we made, instead of risking getting involved in the altercation and being responsible for anything that could’ve happened.
Sure, these tells are highly contextual, you obviously know that professor & exact situation. That general stance of "let them hoes fight" is not delta by definition.
The Alpha I know like a monstrous younger but bigger brother, Viking Chad, loves to stand back and laugh when the hobbits squabble.
If a bravo tried to stop them, he might well veto along the lines of "Nah, if they kill each other, I'll piss myself", a positive outcome for VC.
My Sigma boss has done the same thing to underlings: "you have 20 minutes to sort it out yourselves, please use the car park if it will be messy, after that if you can't shake hands I'll pay to the end of the month on your way out."
Obviously I don't know the guy, but as a former professor I can say that it's always amusing when students get into it during class discussions.
In fact, that was generally the hope in a philosophy class: that students would argue intelligibly different sides of the question at hand. It's not at all an "oh no, I don't want to get in the middle of this," rather "Oh here we go, some action! Let's see how this plays out. Have at it!"
> When failure becomes not only an option, but a probability, then the additional responsibilities offered are best declined.
I have noticed that with Deltas and Gammas this is not limited to leadership. We have many complex unsolved problems at work that very smart Deltas will not even try to solve because there is a high possibility of visible failure. They will not willingly take on the risk that they will spend 3-6 months of their time and then fail.
From my experience, the failure of an alpha is much more tolerated than the failure of a delta. This is subject to the particular context but on most institutions heavily influenced by women this is what i've observed. I hardly have experience in a complete male dominated context (not even in sports since our trainers and managers were also women). If you have no room to try, where any attempt to improve that leads to failure is heavily punished, you start getting conditioned to not even try.
The way out is to do it outside of "female supervision".
> From my experience, the failure of an alpha is much more tolerated than the failure of a delta.
This is probably true.
> where any attempt to improve that leads to failure is heavily punished
This is not really true. You are right with your examples but your reasoning is wrong.
Deltas have a strong natural aversion to this kind of risk. They are pushed/pressured into it in more masculine environments.
In your standard corporate female dominated environment it is extremely rare to see someone fired for wasting time or failing. There is little accountability. Deltas are not punished for taking on risks. Yet Deltas in these environments will not take on risks.
In male dominated startups it is common to see people fired for not delivering / wasting time. There is a lot more accountability. Yet Deltas in these environments take on more risks.
Being forced to select executives for demanding positions from among those who one can trust implicitly and are personally loyal massively increases the likelihood of a SSH-role mismatch. Even worse when the pool has already been winnowed by dynastic conflict and inbreeding.
Do you plan for or at least anticipate at least one banning per gamma article?
It seems like a consistent pattern.
Outside of publishing on these kinds of platforms, how could we take note of that pattern and use it in other contacts?
Anticipate and plan for gamma spergs whenever we ... ???
A common business etiquette is that praise is public and criticism private. Is privately criticising a gamma equally as inflammatory as mentioning them on a website?
I don't see how you would plan for Gammas to show up.
More interestingly, since most of these Gamma types are probably not the same one, this could be seen as an indicator of site growth. New readers are exposed, with a percentage being Gammas and one of those Gammas getting fatally triggered.
Thank you for another illustration of Deltas. I'm married to one, and it's been enlightening to have a framework to see his struggles with leadership in a sympathetic way. Leadership and authority are often listed as essential qualities of a man, which has lead to no small amount of soul searching when he falls short of his expectations. He is so competent and friendly that he is often offered leadership positions, but he functions much better as a second in command or squad leader. He's not a "vision guy" but will happily carry out someone else's plan.
From my wifely perspective, Deltas can be situational Bravos without much strain, but Alpha is a stress too far.
The problem is that leadership IS an essential quality in a husband – he needs to lead his wife and family! But no one talks about the fact that it's a very different kind of leadership than that which applies to men. Because that would be sexist and misogynistic (and racist for good measure).
Yes! The servant leadership that works so well in a family doesn't transfer well to organizations. Maybe because a family has its goal already set and a prepared vision to live up to it's not such an obstacle for the Delta.
Servant Leadership can work in organizations, even under turnaround pressures. But it is greatly assisted by certain circumstances and practices; q.v. the book “Good to Great” chronicling examples.
AND I wouldn’t assign a delta to lead any of that at scale.
my experience is that Delta's are fine in operation roles that don't that most things can be known and things are well understood. Even large teams. I have know and seen good deltas who are construction formans leading large 20 to 30+ build crews.
Crisis mode is differenet depending on what new problem is there and if they can apply known procedures to tackle it. This depends on the team as experienced deltas wont freak out like neeb deltas. It is when creative solutions come into play that delta's struggle as they lack the confidence and are risk adverse. Alpha/Sigma's will take the shot.
Understanding the SSH has been eye opening when it comes to understanding why institutions and organizations struggle and even sometimes fail when the torch of leadership is passed.
I reflect on a church that I attended for years led by an alpha who had an untimely passing. A very low delta took over and w/in less than 7 yrs is a shell of its former self. To a company that I've been tangentially involved with that has been led quite successfully for decades by a sigma. Hes retiring and his successor is a low delta w/gamma tendencies. Already the craacks are beginning to show.
Wonder if the Pauline requirements for an Elder. Who leads his house well with well behaved children is a way to ensuing men in the right position of SSH is in charge.
I have a friend who can do a weekly 60 hours of very physical labor with no problem. At the end of the 60 hours, he has so much energy left that I have seen him happily dance more than once. But he really hates it when superiors try and put him into a management position. I always thought it was pretty impressive that he knew himself well enough to say no to the offers of promotion.
The commentary is interesting about impartial judges. One could easily misinterpret him as a gamma based on his disproportionate reactions without context.
This could explain the perceived proliferation of gammas because so many people are trying to raise their status instead of amplifying positive ingrained traits.
I think it's easy to overrate his "insecurity". His insecurity wasn't psychological, it was due to his literally insecure position. And Deltas are also prone to emotional overreaction when they are frightened by challenges; unlike Alphas, they don't expect challenges as a matter of course and they react fearfully.
Poor Valens must have been terrified, not only for himself, but of failing his brother.
Of course looking at this from another angle, not all enemies are gamma and while not without risk, the tatic of setting someone up for a fall is worth pondering.
Though if you have power to do so, in most circumstances, presumably you have power to dispose, still edge cases exist, and while useless most of the time, when you have need to it, you're glad of it.
Returning to the topic while avoiding taking authority can lead you down a crooked road, it's undoubtedly a big risk to take on responsibility beyond your capabilities.
Of course sometimes there's not much of a choice, to take an extreme army example, you could be the last officer who can command.
As in all these things, striving to be the right man in the right place at the right time applies whatever your rank.
Only, the time and place vary, and as for being the right man, that's all prep, for the time waits for no man.
You can't be more than you, but you can improve your parameters of you. If you make yourself of some use, at least other men who will be the right man, in the right place at the right time will think of preserving your hide, for most of us are neither sigma or alpha.
Did Valentine have a suitable alternative? A co-emporer who would split the kingdom would not be a good option either.
I fo not know if that was the case but sometimes you can only play yhe hand God delt you.
Large states were already split by the slow speed & high cost of communication networks, it became impossible for one power centre to effectively administrate distant provinces & coordinate armies. Rough choices either way: split, or bleed at the edges.
The system of co-Emperors was already long-established out of necessity. Theodosius was too young, but one of his proven generals would have almost certainly been a better choice from a military perspective. Of course, then he might have faced a civil war; sometimes there are no good options.
He was Arian? Seems Gamma to me lol
Speaking of Gamma, get yours under control.
That's why I'm here!
Gamma does not mean "something with which I disagree".
You're a Gamma. Arian emperors who led tens of thousands of men into battle with Gothic warriors are not. Don't be retarded
What is the peter principal?
"The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to "a level of respective incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another."
Being given promotion because of your performance in current role and not the role you're promoted to.
I heard it as promotion to the level of one’s incompetence. Whether it is a temporary or permanent condition is relevant.
I started a new job last week. I am in a role that requires a Bravo, and my boss is in a role that requires an Alpha. We are both Deltas. What could go wrong…
Would it make you feel any better to know that I’ve not seen any sign of an alpha in years at my place of work? Back when I started around 2001 there were a fair number of them, now there’s a very thin leaven of Bravos, lots of Deltas, and more Gammas than an organization needs. Hmm, the stock was a lot better in those days too. I wonder if there’s a connection.
But you may be overestimating what your role requires. At least I hope so. My group ran pretty well with me as Bravo in an NCO role and my old boss as the very solid and extremely detail-oriented Delta. Now that boss has been replaced by another Bravo after he retired. The one thing a Delta boss really can’t do is inspire their subordinates to be better. A Bravo can do that, a little, but an Alpha can do that a lot. I’ve never had a Sigma boss.
Does your boss recognize this? is so it could just be a stretch. I am assuming it is a largr new implementation.
if it isn't then you might be over estimating the need. Delta's can do "keep the lights on" but if you are implementing nee with lots of people then an Alpha id needed to drive.
It’s really too early to know much yet.
Step up, situationally.
Or, not.
That you have realized it, determines the fulcrum.
Most likely both of you are going to avoid making necessary decisions or changes.
I will be sure to look out for that.
The mentoring for those that struggle with decisiveness is to remember that if you make the wrong call no one is going to die. You are not calling in air support or artillery danger close or determining life saving medical procedures.
Don't over think it and trust yourself. With practice it will get less stressful.
More decisiveness means more mistakes. My boss has made some decisions that had terrible consequences, putting out a fire at the time, then losing lots of money going forward.
But that is in the context of the many big decisions involved in polishing an epic scale technical turd with our website, all while losing traffic and employees. He doesn't bat 1000, but he has 1000 coming at him fast all the time anyway. A ditherer in his position would drown. In balls. Bad way to go.
Big wins come as well as big losses. The Alpha is more often willing to take on the risk and reward scenarios.
He calls those big losses "taking bloody noses". Unpleasant fact of life in his shoes.
Right. But, critical to keep the heat off the Deltas and Gammas doing the work.
Some Air Force pilots claim to be able to run any organization. Most of them are correct.
Pilots know how to make decisions--many times quick ones--often with little info. They figure out who are the best SMEs, get the best Bravo they can working for them to keep the internal mechanisms running at top form, and then go about keeping the garbage from falling on top of their people. The good ones take the heat if something goes wrong, but reap accolades when it goes well. Their willingness to take the stick and make decisions, even if it might be the wrong one, is a key to leadership.
I agree with AML. At least you have the more possible job. Good luck!
Thanks!
Good luck! Seriously though, don't go into this expecting to fail, go into it expecting to grow.
I worked directly for an Alpha before, and found it very stressful, because I am not a natural Bravo. But I appreciated the clear instructions and demands he gave. I probably will now have to expect a lot less of that.
I believe one professor I had was a Delta, and he fit his role very well because he was actually an adjunct professor the university hired in a hurry just to teach two classes. He was actually a great guy. Friendly, approachable, and always willing to offer advice to us young folks. But he never tried to work his way into a full time professorship because he understood he couldn’t balance that with the other professional responsibilities in his life.
One massive tell was that when me and another student (who was a Gamma) got into a verbal confrontation during class, our professor just stepped back and let it happen. Probably because he preferred mopping up any mess we made, instead of risking getting involved in the altercation and being responsible for anything that could’ve happened.
Sure, these tells are highly contextual, you obviously know that professor & exact situation. That general stance of "let them hoes fight" is not delta by definition.
The Alpha I know like a monstrous younger but bigger brother, Viking Chad, loves to stand back and laugh when the hobbits squabble.
If a bravo tried to stop them, he might well veto along the lines of "Nah, if they kill each other, I'll piss myself", a positive outcome for VC.
My Sigma boss has done the same thing to underlings: "you have 20 minutes to sort it out yourselves, please use the car park if it will be messy, after that if you can't shake hands I'll pay to the end of the month on your way out."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9cZDnRWamY
That’s actually quite insightful. Thanks for sharing your experiences. The video definitely helped illustrate, lol.
Obviously I don't know the guy, but as a former professor I can say that it's always amusing when students get into it during class discussions.
In fact, that was generally the hope in a philosophy class: that students would argue intelligibly different sides of the question at hand. It's not at all an "oh no, I don't want to get in the middle of this," rather "Oh here we go, some action! Let's see how this plays out. Have at it!"
> When failure becomes not only an option, but a probability, then the additional responsibilities offered are best declined.
I have noticed that with Deltas and Gammas this is not limited to leadership. We have many complex unsolved problems at work that very smart Deltas will not even try to solve because there is a high possibility of visible failure. They will not willingly take on the risk that they will spend 3-6 months of their time and then fail.
From my experience, the failure of an alpha is much more tolerated than the failure of a delta. This is subject to the particular context but on most institutions heavily influenced by women this is what i've observed. I hardly have experience in a complete male dominated context (not even in sports since our trainers and managers were also women). If you have no room to try, where any attempt to improve that leads to failure is heavily punished, you start getting conditioned to not even try.
The way out is to do it outside of "female supervision".
> From my experience, the failure of an alpha is much more tolerated than the failure of a delta.
This is probably true.
> where any attempt to improve that leads to failure is heavily punished
This is not really true. You are right with your examples but your reasoning is wrong.
Deltas have a strong natural aversion to this kind of risk. They are pushed/pressured into it in more masculine environments.
In your standard corporate female dominated environment it is extremely rare to see someone fired for wasting time or failing. There is little accountability. Deltas are not punished for taking on risks. Yet Deltas in these environments will not take on risks.
In male dominated startups it is common to see people fired for not delivering / wasting time. There is a lot more accountability. Yet Deltas in these environments take on more risks.
Harry Callahan: Well, I just work for the city, Briggs!
Lieutenant Briggs: So do I, longer than you, and I never had to take my gun out of its holster once. I'm proud of that.
Harry Callahan: Well, you're a good man, lieutenant. A good man always knows his limitations...
Being forced to select executives for demanding positions from among those who one can trust implicitly and are personally loyal massively increases the likelihood of a SSH-role mismatch. Even worse when the pool has already been winnowed by dynastic conflict and inbreeding.
@vox:
Do you plan for or at least anticipate at least one banning per gamma article?
It seems like a consistent pattern.
Outside of publishing on these kinds of platforms, how could we take note of that pattern and use it in other contacts?
Anticipate and plan for gamma spergs whenever we ... ???
A common business etiquette is that praise is public and criticism private. Is privately criticising a gamma equally as inflammatory as mentioning them on a website?
(Red rag to a rat?)
Roquefort to a rat, hehe.
I don't think about them at all. If they show up, I deal with them as quickly as possible.
I don't see how you would plan for Gammas to show up.
More interestingly, since most of these Gamma types are probably not the same one, this could be seen as an indicator of site growth. New readers are exposed, with a percentage being Gammas and one of those Gammas getting fatally triggered.
Thank you for another illustration of Deltas. I'm married to one, and it's been enlightening to have a framework to see his struggles with leadership in a sympathetic way. Leadership and authority are often listed as essential qualities of a man, which has lead to no small amount of soul searching when he falls short of his expectations. He is so competent and friendly that he is often offered leadership positions, but he functions much better as a second in command or squad leader. He's not a "vision guy" but will happily carry out someone else's plan.
From my wifely perspective, Deltas can be situational Bravos without much strain, but Alpha is a stress too far.
The problem is that leadership IS an essential quality in a husband – he needs to lead his wife and family! But no one talks about the fact that it's a very different kind of leadership than that which applies to men. Because that would be sexist and misogynistic (and racist for good measure).
Yes! The servant leadership that works so well in a family doesn't transfer well to organizations. Maybe because a family has its goal already set and a prepared vision to live up to it's not such an obstacle for the Delta.
Servant Leadership can work in organizations, even under turnaround pressures. But it is greatly assisted by certain circumstances and practices; q.v. the book “Good to Great” chronicling examples.
AND I wouldn’t assign a delta to lead any of that at scale.
my experience is that Delta's are fine in operation roles that don't that most things can be known and things are well understood. Even large teams. I have know and seen good deltas who are construction formans leading large 20 to 30+ build crews.
Crisis mode is differenet depending on what new problem is there and if they can apply known procedures to tackle it. This depends on the team as experienced deltas wont freak out like neeb deltas. It is when creative solutions come into play that delta's struggle as they lack the confidence and are risk adverse. Alpha/Sigma's will take the shot.
That is the key: willing to take the risk and the responsibility for the outcome.
Husbands and fathers are Bravos to Christ.
Understanding the SSH has been eye opening when it comes to understanding why institutions and organizations struggle and even sometimes fail when the torch of leadership is passed.
I reflect on a church that I attended for years led by an alpha who had an untimely passing. A very low delta took over and w/in less than 7 yrs is a shell of its former self. To a company that I've been tangentially involved with that has been led quite successfully for decades by a sigma. Hes retiring and his successor is a low delta w/gamma tendencies. Already the craacks are beginning to show.
It's quite interesting to witness
Wonder if the Pauline requirements for an Elder. Who leads his house well with well behaved children is a way to ensuing men in the right position of SSH is in charge.
Sorry for a dumb question but I’m new to this. What’s an SSH?
Welcome to the jungle.
If you're new, do yourself a huge favor and read the top post on the home page first thing.
Social sexual hierarchy
I have a friend who can do a weekly 60 hours of very physical labor with no problem. At the end of the 60 hours, he has so much energy left that I have seen him happily dance more than once. But he really hates it when superiors try and put him into a management position. I always thought it was pretty impressive that he knew himself well enough to say no to the offers of promotion.
I am currently in a bravo role. My boss is a Delta with gamma traits.
So I have to step into his role while doing my own. Which has allowed me to realize I do not want to be the site manager.
The commentary is interesting about impartial judges. One could easily misinterpret him as a gamma based on his disproportionate reactions without context.
This could explain the perceived proliferation of gammas because so many people are trying to raise their status instead of amplifying positive ingrained traits.
I think it's easy to overrate his "insecurity". His insecurity wasn't psychological, it was due to his literally insecure position. And Deltas are also prone to emotional overreaction when they are frightened by challenges; unlike Alphas, they don't expect challenges as a matter of course and they react fearfully.
Poor Valens must have been terrified, not only for himself, but of failing his brother.
Of course looking at this from another angle, not all enemies are gamma and while not without risk, the tatic of setting someone up for a fall is worth pondering.
Though if you have power to do so, in most circumstances, presumably you have power to dispose, still edge cases exist, and while useless most of the time, when you have need to it, you're glad of it.
Returning to the topic while avoiding taking authority can lead you down a crooked road, it's undoubtedly a big risk to take on responsibility beyond your capabilities.
Of course sometimes there's not much of a choice, to take an extreme army example, you could be the last officer who can command.
As in all these things, striving to be the right man in the right place at the right time applies whatever your rank.
Only, the time and place vary, and as for being the right man, that's all prep, for the time waits for no man.
You can't be more than you, but you can improve your parameters of you. If you make yourself of some use, at least other men who will be the right man, in the right place at the right time will think of preserving your hide, for most of us are neither sigma or alpha.
Most of us are followers.