Best friend Delta coaches his son's under-9s soccer team. All he does is try to make the practices and games less stressful and more enjoyable for the kids. The stories he tells about the other parents make my head spin. Endless bitching and threats.
Most delta jobs don't allow for missing work, substance abuse, or mental health issues. Deltas succeed by continually using their skills over time. This can lead to comfortable wealth accumulation and raising children that love and make time for them in their old age.
Plenty of opportunity to start another Boy Scouts of America and other converged organizations. Are all the leaders cucks in this Nation or is Evil too strong at the moment?
Here and I thought that every male organization could only survive with a surfeit of melanin enhanced sub 80 IQ vaginas of color. I remember when such occurred to great fan fair to our once local youth baseball team. The old alpha manager retired and with him about half the coaches who were all greatest generation and quite old. The diversity came in and quickly the entire mood changed with teams being limited to only being 1 to 2 points ahead (i.e. if you the kid who just hit a grand slam and put your team up 4-0 the scoreboard could only show 2-0 cause muh fee fees). The league managed to last another year before folding and dying from lack of interest. Try being an inspirational coach under such conditions. The local rag suggested that the primary cause for the league closing was racism. Anyone here miss the 90's?
When you lose the deltas you lose the organization.
What I have seen happen is a few bad actors get into positions of power. Such as HR. Typically a role that is viewed as "Non essential" by the deltas. Then all sorts of games, power plays, and barriers to getting the work done are erected. Put in a few sparkling divas and the people who do the work leave.
The best organization I ever dealt with was when one of the true sigmas I ran into gave us a goal, the means, and told us "Do it. I don't care how. Just do it." We did. It was great. No HR BS. No ISO BS. We did a great project in record time with high moral.
When the sigma moved on, as I now see he was always going to do, the gamma freak out destroyed the results, broke up the team, and ended my career in a field I loved.
As a number of commenters have pointed out, Deltas are pretty much what make civilizations that people actually want to live in work. You can judge a church pretty reliably by the fraction of deltas. If they show up regularly, with their wives and children, it's probably a decent church. If they don't show up, or show up only on occasion, it's probably a converged institution. Deltas in that way are a lot like money, they go where they're wanted and stay where they're well treated.
It is a popular bromide to say that Society should focus on helping its poorest or least advantaged members. I'll disagree with that and argue that Society should focus on about the 20th to 80th percentile, which for men, means mostly the Deltas. Why? Because the top 20% always do pretty well and would be best served by mostly leaving them alone and the bottom 20% are too dysfunctional to help at a societal level anyway.
"Because the top 20% always do pretty well and would be best served by mostly leaving them alone and the bottom 20% are too dysfunctional to help at a societal level anyway."
My brother in finance says the same thing. It's his and his friends' job to make money. Everyone else is compensated for their work. So believing that you can beat them at poker during your off-hours, when that's their office, that makes them laugh. And they'll gladly take your money from you, if you still believe in yourself too much.
Adding to the incompatibilities of Deltas, I've noticed the thing Delta's hate the most is rework, where they're done with a project and you tell them some minor aspect has to be changed and to do it all over again. Women and gammas, conversely, love demanding minor revisions and throwing the project back to the beginning. A typical example would be telling a Delta coach to redo a schedule, procedure or email inclusion statement over and over again.
The threatpoint of the Delta is that they just stop showing up one day. They'll take a ton of BS but they have their limit. Even then a good alpha/beta can let them blow off steam and start work again like nothing happened. The women/gammas take it as a major offense and use the incident to kneecap or eliminate the delta, which is the other way deltas stop showing up.
Once again Vox has tapped into an widely known but not allowed to be openly discussed issue. While the SSH is rock solid, he has smartly and so far wisely avoided creating the same for women. Yet in his various posts and in the responses there appears to be certain female SSH aspects yet to be named that come to light. What are they?
As a married man of almost 50 years, successfully raised two daughters with my wife’s help, currently enjoying helping the grandkids grow properly, I started working in male dominated fields with male dominated customers and have made the transition to the current crazy mixed sexes work environment. I find many of my gut feeling confirmed and now, thanks to Vox, am able to assess and better handle both male and females. If Vox is not careful he may uncover a working female SSH. At which point he will become truly the SDL in the eyes of the woke, so sayeth this ilk.
Obsessing about female "ssh" is useless, because their "hierarchy" is too dynamic. "Drama" happens all the time, girls stop talking for the littlest reasons.
On the other hand, you can categorize women by female archetypes. One possible typology is the Western zodiac. Another is the MBTI axes. Or naming them like the Little Women sisters or Pride & Prejudice sisters.
I am not sure how to describe their hierarchy, worked for years with an alpha wife, also her girls were in our soccer league I coached. Great lady, fun, hard worker, smart yet not college educated. Her husband is a great guy. Definitely alpha. Also later worked with an alpha widow who moved on, and am currently working with alpha widow. They are definitely different than other women, including my wife. They are all what I would consider very high maintenance and demanding. If I were single and looking there is no way I would pursue them. Definitely used to being extremely well treated financially.. Other ladies I work for/with are clearly delta and bravo divorcees. Others are in the process of marrying their deltas and bravos. A few I worked with as they’ve divorced and remarried. The guys are a mix of deltas, bravos and few alphas. There is a difference among the women. Just trying to figure out the rule. Alpha widows and wives are definitely a distinct category like alpha in the male SSH. May the SDL forgive this transgression.
The women may be queen bees, but other girls can walk away any time, and they do. A queen bee without workers has no hierarchy.
Girls get rated by beauty 1-10. But their dyadic friendships only sometimes relate to their beauty rating. Girls generally submit based on Respect, which is also why they cannot love a man they don't respect somehow. How Girls accrue female respect is based on a multivariate cultural function: money, co-ed social hierarchy, being fun, fashion sense / aesthetics, being organized, networking skills, and lastly female rating of female beauty (which is a crude approximation of male rating).
Hotter girls are crazier, because they can afford it. Alpha widows are super crazy and super-entitled, because they think they can get away with it.
To understand female hierarchy, you have to look at how girls interact directly with each other.
Women can’t walk away any time when on the assembly line or when there is a large secretarial or AA pool. It’s not about beauty there. It’s about the queens relationship with their bosses that rule. Their power is very real. It can get very ugly and catty. Outside of work is different. Other than that I completely agree with your posting
My wife is currently trying to advance (or, more accurately, hold her position) in a male dominated organisation where she works PT. She feels she has been sidelined because she is a woman. It’s a highly skilled field that for a variety of reasons does not appeal to many women. I don’t know enough to speak to the character of the men in senior positions in her organisation but my wife clearly doesn’t ‘fit’ with the current culture there. Unfortunately it’s the only company that operates in this field (it hold an exclusive government contract) so she doesn’t have any other options.
I try to offer sympathy and guidance but she is becoming less pragmatic and more bitter about it and the constant bombardment of messages from friends and media only fuels her sense that she has been wronged and that the organisation is bad and that the problem is that it’s dominated by men.
My wife is very good at her job but she has that female tunnel vision which puts her own wants first and what is best for the success of the organisation second.
The advice I give her is based on what I would do in her situation which seems sensible to me because it’s a male dominated company and therefore she has to act and compete on those terms. Am I getting this wrong?
Women should be at home raising families and not in career field that are male dominated. It is doubtful she is very good at the job. I have never found a woman working in a male dominated job to be as good as an average man.
Plenty of jobs out there for women that are not dominated by men. I would have her get into a job where it is mostly women but then again, I do not have a wife who wears the pants.
She doesn’t work in a male dominated field. Her specialty is ~30% female and the profession as a whole is now > 50% female. But this sub specialty is male dominated for a variety of reasons. She is considering quitting which might be for the best.
She is specialized, so people don’t understand or appreciate the specialty. Makes it harder to connect to other so the company. Unless those above her support/defend her, she is SOL.
Sounds like a typical DOD contractor, filled with chauvinist ass holes who are mission and results oriented, not picking on her as I am one, feeling hurt tough shit, did the job get done? Great. If not people die, which is not good. Two problems, first of all she is a part timer. Doesn’t matter if male or female P/T people are always much lower in the totem pole, qualifications don’t matter. They are always considered less committed and important and valuable than F/T. Sucks but that is reality. Been there done that. Don’t take it personally, hard as that is. Really she needs to accept that.
Secondly, there is likely a total male mission based results orientation. The female approach tends to be viewed as weak. Again a male-female approach style difference is a killer. She needs to put her paycheck ahead of her feelings. Don’t mean to be an AH but have dealt with too many qualified females that wander into the playing field and don’t understand there is a game going on. Hope she figures out the terrain before she burns herself out.
What about women who compete in male hierarchies by mimicking men? Was Margaret Thatcher an Alpha male? Possibly the exception to the rule?
Not trying to contradict you, more asking how to consider women mimicking male positions in the SSH. Irrespective of their competence or otherwise the vast majority will still exhibit female behaviours as much as they might try to keep them hidden.
Aye Aye Sir. But there is something there, Lord only knows what it is. Hoped the SDL could help. Female biological and mental wiring is definitely very different and irrational. Although change does happen, although very little with time. On the line, definitely one could see the queen bee among the ladies, never could figure out the why, just that they were. Kind of like a mafia boss. Just like the male SSH being disclosed, the existence of a female a SSH is kind of a search for the holy grail. Mea Culpa. I reach for the stars and I fail, yet I still try. Never give up,
And Vox has been correct from day one. Whatever the FSSM is is not for the men to be figuring out. Which has to be frustrating, because the women are going to do it, if they do it, sideways, with misdirection.
*Or at least not one a man would recognize with ranks and order**. There will be a woman in every group to which other women defer, women who have overlapping spheres of influence, and women who have none outside their family. And there are women who very much want their to be a female hierarchy with them at the top.
**Except for their part in the human hierarchy of God, men, women, children, and creation.
I almost wrote a wall of text on this yesterday, but decided against it. You are completely right, Codex. Masculinity is vertical and thus hierarchical. Femininity is horizontal, thus matrix or web or whatever other poetic illustration one wishes to use. They are necessarily, functionally different from the chromosomes out, and there is no way to shoehorn the structure of female social dynamics into a masculine social structure. It's like trying to quantify weight in units of brightness, a massive category error.
"Femininity is horizontal, thus matrix or web or whatever other poetic illustration one wishes to use."
Makes me think of music. It's less about picking out individuals and their specific roles, and more identifying the group's sound and how women harmonize into it.
There's a semblance od one where male hierarchies bring in their wives as adjunct. In the Navy, the officer's wives had spheres of responsibility related to their husband's. And yet at the same time, the female power structure ran along in a parallel track, all the more influential because the wives perforce exercised delegated power in tthir homes sans husband for months at a time (6 months, once IIRC).
And woe betide the Captain's wife who failed to recognize the high influence women. Mom recruited one such, from the enlisted wives to be her XO. Worked a treat.
I would think trying to consider a female hierarchy is a category error.
Male social structure is rigid. That's why solid hierarchies exist with it. Changes can occur, but overall it's pretty much steady-state.
Female social structure is fluid. There cannot be a structure because it's not built of interlocking pieces, but relationships constantly in flux. Imagine female social structure as water.... in a container.... strapped to the back of a cocaine-fueled cat chasing a laser pointer in a field of rakes.
I like your analogy. However, as one who has always pursued the patterns and mathematics behind chaos theory I simply can’t let go. Not sure about their fluidity. Seems pretty constant to me with decades of exposure to them. Certain rules do apply. They can turn quickly for whatever reason. Logic ain’t. What they said doesn’t matter, only now matters. Feeling they can’t or won’t explain or express matter. Expect irrational and unjustified behavior. You are wrong.
While I do applaud and strongly support Vox for his Male SSH I do wish he could even consider there might be some rules along those lines for females. I’m not smart enough to come up with it but there must be something along those lines we males are immersed in and missing. Maybe not a hierarchy but a set of rules to follow. Lord know the average guy could use them.
Reminds me of Fourier transforms and the frequency domain. Women are not constant, but they do have predictable patterns.
So there is probably a need to switch to a different domain rather than try to treat women as a constant value over time. Attempts to use the male SSH as the baseline makes the same old mistake of treating women as men with boobs.
Women are orthogonal to the SSH due to their complementary nature.
There are patterns and maybe even types of mathematical predictability with women. But there's not a _hierarchy_ like there is with men.
As for fluidity, the women themselves may be fairly constant, but life isn't. One never knows who any given woman will run into on any given day affecting her personal feelings or group or status, or how a relationship might suddenly change on a dime. That's the fluid part.
You are onto something with regard to fluidity. Watched females change attitudes faster than any male for trivial issues. Requires further thought. Thank you.
It is a system of dynamics. There are forces and drivers. Sometimes they reach saddlepoints, but they are so fleeting that they are irrelevant for modeling purposes.
There is a reason why girls parasitize off of the male hierarchy (wife of Alpha trying to boss other wives around), because vast majority of them cannot manage complex organizations on their own. There is a reason that matriarchal societies are inherently flat.
Seeing a fight right now at work between two higher ups, a Delta and Gamma. The Gamma has been quite good at taking over departments, including mine, because he speaks well in meetings and works a lot. The Delta is a local who is good at his job, head of HR and Internal Affairs. The fight was a petty matter, but the Gamma made the Delta look like a fool (Gamma is objectively smarter). The Alpha who is president is siding with the Delta, because he knows he'll have more loyalty and less drama with him in the long run, which baffles the Gamma.
When Gammas learn to be useful, they still need to be held at arms length lest they take on too much power. Deltas can't make executive decisions, but they're much more reliable and would never dream of the kind of avarice a Gamma can hold.
I think he’s going to leave for a job where he can feel more appreciated. It might actually make him more useful, and fix some of the worse tendencies.
Youth sports are where Deltas impart the Delta understanding a high-functioning society needs. I’m far from a Delta, but was a consummate one on the court. Not good enough to be a star and really wanted to play meant embracing a role. Otherwise you get cut. Recognizing the necessity of that at a young age is one of those lessons that imprints for life. And it doesn’t happen without Delta coaches.
There’s two streams now - socialized young men and soylents. They even appear physiologically different. Interesting times ahead.
One of the most critical losses to the BSA in the past decade or so is the loss of support from the Mormons. It was caused by SJW agendas taking over. Locally, they did the necessary things nobody else wanted to.
Needed a specific badge for Eagle? As long as hiking/camping weren't essential to it, our local Mormon troops hosted a fair twice a year where you could get any of them in 3 weekends. Anyone could attend for $20 per badge. This included badges such as First Aid and Emergency Preparedness, the sort of skills that made the program prestigious in the first place.
But I'm sure going into the woods with gay Scoutmasters and teen girls with minimal supervision can teach them a lot, too.
Scouts are a great example of running the Deltas out of an organization, usually by women and gammas. The ex-wife was apoplectic when our son said he was done with scouts. All her brothers were eagle scouts, doncha'know. She was even more pissed when she found I was behind it.
We were on a camp where the BS invited the Webelos to transition up. At one point we were hiking and the boy asked if I were ever a scout. I said that I never made it. We got sick of the dumb campouts and activities and always peeled off by ourselves so we figured the hell with it and just did our thing. Besides, the old man couldn't stand the den mothers and [gamma] fathers. I told him to never do something like this, that you don't want to do, because a woman, even your mom, wants it. I didn't tell him that I had no intention of spending my weekends tenting in the Texas heat with the troop of whipped bozos running the group. He figured it out though.
It was the first of many life lessons about control freaks and buzz killers for the boy. So I guess there is some value in the process.
I did cub scouts for 2 years back in 79-80. The troop was run by both parents of a kind of weird kid. Looking back I would call them a hippie family. I remember getting yelled at for throwing rocks in a river on one of our hikes because I was "disturbing nature". There was one annoying kid who was always messing with me or my stuff at meetings. My favorite memory is when my dad told me to punch him in the nose if he messed with me again. At the next meeting I walked up to the kid and said "My dad told to me to punch you in the face if you bother me again." He got this shocked and surprised look on his face, and never annoyed me after that.
After reading this, I need to do some thinking about my own organization and how I can use my influence over it (I don't own or control it) to improve the lot of my Delta colleagues. I can tell that their existence, while not bad, is far less than optimal.
My view is that this site, its posts and comments are really a form of forbidden alternative management tech. I've never gone to business school (nor would I at this point) but I can tell that most of their graduates are filled to the brim with counter-knowledge and have really no idea what we are here to do.
I was in the Scouts towards the end, and we all felt something had already been lost. In addition to general bans on things boys find fun, there was a massive push from the adults for "boy-led troops" in which none of those words applied.
Try to institute penalties for showing up out of uniform? That's "hazing"
Planning a troop activity that wasn't generic camping? You need to get everything approved by the scoutmasters, who will invariably turn it into another generic camping trip
Organizing a troop merit badge course? Too bad you don't want to do Citizenship in the World - denied
The only position that even resembled authority was the Troop Guide, because he was in charge of keeping the snot-noses from setting themselves on fire or starving, and even his authority was undermined by the scoutmistress who sleeps in a camper.
Was going to take issue with the crack about only deltas & predators but then realised that my primary focus is rooting out who the pederasts & gammas are so that I know my kid is ok.
Best friend Delta coaches his son's under-9s soccer team. All he does is try to make the practices and games less stressful and more enjoyable for the kids. The stories he tells about the other parents make my head spin. Endless bitching and threats.
Most delta jobs don't allow for missing work, substance abuse, or mental health issues. Deltas succeed by continually using their skills over time. This can lead to comfortable wealth accumulation and raising children that love and make time for them in their old age.
Plenty of opportunity to start another Boy Scouts of America and other converged organizations. Are all the leaders cucks in this Nation or is Evil too strong at the moment?
Here and I thought that every male organization could only survive with a surfeit of melanin enhanced sub 80 IQ vaginas of color. I remember when such occurred to great fan fair to our once local youth baseball team. The old alpha manager retired and with him about half the coaches who were all greatest generation and quite old. The diversity came in and quickly the entire mood changed with teams being limited to only being 1 to 2 points ahead (i.e. if you the kid who just hit a grand slam and put your team up 4-0 the scoreboard could only show 2-0 cause muh fee fees). The league managed to last another year before folding and dying from lack of interest. Try being an inspirational coach under such conditions. The local rag suggested that the primary cause for the league closing was racism. Anyone here miss the 90's?
When you lose the deltas you lose the organization.
What I have seen happen is a few bad actors get into positions of power. Such as HR. Typically a role that is viewed as "Non essential" by the deltas. Then all sorts of games, power plays, and barriers to getting the work done are erected. Put in a few sparkling divas and the people who do the work leave.
The best organization I ever dealt with was when one of the true sigmas I ran into gave us a goal, the means, and told us "Do it. I don't care how. Just do it." We did. It was great. No HR BS. No ISO BS. We did a great project in record time with high moral.
When the sigma moved on, as I now see he was always going to do, the gamma freak out destroyed the results, broke up the team, and ended my career in a field I loved.
But for one short season, we had what we needed.
As a number of commenters have pointed out, Deltas are pretty much what make civilizations that people actually want to live in work. You can judge a church pretty reliably by the fraction of deltas. If they show up regularly, with their wives and children, it's probably a decent church. If they don't show up, or show up only on occasion, it's probably a converged institution. Deltas in that way are a lot like money, they go where they're wanted and stay where they're well treated.
It is a popular bromide to say that Society should focus on helping its poorest or least advantaged members. I'll disagree with that and argue that Society should focus on about the 20th to 80th percentile, which for men, means mostly the Deltas. Why? Because the top 20% always do pretty well and would be best served by mostly leaving them alone and the bottom 20% are too dysfunctional to help at a societal level anyway.
"Because the top 20% always do pretty well and would be best served by mostly leaving them alone and the bottom 20% are too dysfunctional to help at a societal level anyway."
My brother in finance says the same thing. It's his and his friends' job to make money. Everyone else is compensated for their work. So believing that you can beat them at poker during your off-hours, when that's their office, that makes them laugh. And they'll gladly take your money from you, if you still believe in yourself too much.
Adding to the incompatibilities of Deltas, I've noticed the thing Delta's hate the most is rework, where they're done with a project and you tell them some minor aspect has to be changed and to do it all over again. Women and gammas, conversely, love demanding minor revisions and throwing the project back to the beginning. A typical example would be telling a Delta coach to redo a schedule, procedure or email inclusion statement over and over again.
The threatpoint of the Delta is that they just stop showing up one day. They'll take a ton of BS but they have their limit. Even then a good alpha/beta can let them blow off steam and start work again like nothing happened. The women/gammas take it as a major offense and use the incident to kneecap or eliminate the delta, which is the other way deltas stop showing up.
Once again Vox has tapped into an widely known but not allowed to be openly discussed issue. While the SSH is rock solid, he has smartly and so far wisely avoided creating the same for women. Yet in his various posts and in the responses there appears to be certain female SSH aspects yet to be named that come to light. What are they?
As a married man of almost 50 years, successfully raised two daughters with my wife’s help, currently enjoying helping the grandkids grow properly, I started working in male dominated fields with male dominated customers and have made the transition to the current crazy mixed sexes work environment. I find many of my gut feeling confirmed and now, thanks to Vox, am able to assess and better handle both male and females. If Vox is not careful he may uncover a working female SSH. At which point he will become truly the SDL in the eyes of the woke, so sayeth this ilk.
Obsessing about female "ssh" is useless, because their "hierarchy" is too dynamic. "Drama" happens all the time, girls stop talking for the littlest reasons.
On the other hand, you can categorize women by female archetypes. One possible typology is the Western zodiac. Another is the MBTI axes. Or naming them like the Little Women sisters or Pride & Prejudice sisters.
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
_________
3
2
1
I am not sure how to describe their hierarchy, worked for years with an alpha wife, also her girls were in our soccer league I coached. Great lady, fun, hard worker, smart yet not college educated. Her husband is a great guy. Definitely alpha. Also later worked with an alpha widow who moved on, and am currently working with alpha widow. They are definitely different than other women, including my wife. They are all what I would consider very high maintenance and demanding. If I were single and looking there is no way I would pursue them. Definitely used to being extremely well treated financially.. Other ladies I work for/with are clearly delta and bravo divorcees. Others are in the process of marrying their deltas and bravos. A few I worked with as they’ve divorced and remarried. The guys are a mix of deltas, bravos and few alphas. There is a difference among the women. Just trying to figure out the rule. Alpha widows and wives are definitely a distinct category like alpha in the male SSH. May the SDL forgive this transgression.
The women may be queen bees, but other girls can walk away any time, and they do. A queen bee without workers has no hierarchy.
Girls get rated by beauty 1-10. But their dyadic friendships only sometimes relate to their beauty rating. Girls generally submit based on Respect, which is also why they cannot love a man they don't respect somehow. How Girls accrue female respect is based on a multivariate cultural function: money, co-ed social hierarchy, being fun, fashion sense / aesthetics, being organized, networking skills, and lastly female rating of female beauty (which is a crude approximation of male rating).
Hotter girls are crazier, because they can afford it. Alpha widows are super crazy and super-entitled, because they think they can get away with it.
To understand female hierarchy, you have to look at how girls interact directly with each other.
Women can’t walk away any time when on the assembly line or when there is a large secretarial or AA pool. It’s not about beauty there. It’s about the queens relationship with their bosses that rule. Their power is very real. It can get very ugly and catty. Outside of work is different. Other than that I completely agree with your posting
"Work" is a male invention, enforced by males.
My wife is currently trying to advance (or, more accurately, hold her position) in a male dominated organisation where she works PT. She feels she has been sidelined because she is a woman. It’s a highly skilled field that for a variety of reasons does not appeal to many women. I don’t know enough to speak to the character of the men in senior positions in her organisation but my wife clearly doesn’t ‘fit’ with the current culture there. Unfortunately it’s the only company that operates in this field (it hold an exclusive government contract) so she doesn’t have any other options.
I try to offer sympathy and guidance but she is becoming less pragmatic and more bitter about it and the constant bombardment of messages from friends and media only fuels her sense that she has been wronged and that the organisation is bad and that the problem is that it’s dominated by men.
My wife is very good at her job but she has that female tunnel vision which puts her own wants first and what is best for the success of the organisation second.
The advice I give her is based on what I would do in her situation which seems sensible to me because it’s a male dominated company and therefore she has to act and compete on those terms. Am I getting this wrong?
Women should be at home raising families and not in career field that are male dominated. It is doubtful she is very good at the job. I have never found a woman working in a male dominated job to be as good as an average man.
Perhaps but feminism happened and some of us are too old to make different choices so this is the situation as we have to deal with it.
Plenty of jobs out there for women that are not dominated by men. I would have her get into a job where it is mostly women but then again, I do not have a wife who wears the pants.
She doesn’t work in a male dominated field. Her specialty is ~30% female and the profession as a whole is now > 50% female. But this sub specialty is male dominated for a variety of reasons. She is considering quitting which might be for the best.
My wife is currently trying to advance (or, more accurately, hold her position) in a male dominated organisation
If she doesn't socialize well with people at the company, then she's out of luck.
Regardless, figure out a niche where she can just do her work. Don't try to compete/compare with other people.
She is specialized, so people don’t understand or appreciate the specialty. Makes it harder to connect to other so the company. Unless those above her support/defend her, she is SOL.
Autistic girls have it tough. Time to retrain and switch industries.
Or work for the Chinese.
Sounds like a typical DOD contractor, filled with chauvinist ass holes who are mission and results oriented, not picking on her as I am one, feeling hurt tough shit, did the job get done? Great. If not people die, which is not good. Two problems, first of all she is a part timer. Doesn’t matter if male or female P/T people are always much lower in the totem pole, qualifications don’t matter. They are always considered less committed and important and valuable than F/T. Sucks but that is reality. Been there done that. Don’t take it personally, hard as that is. Really she needs to accept that.
Secondly, there is likely a total male mission based results orientation. The female approach tends to be viewed as weak. Again a male-female approach style difference is a killer. She needs to put her paycheck ahead of her feelings. Don’t mean to be an AH but have dealt with too many qualified females that wander into the playing field and don’t understand there is a game going on. Hope she figures out the terrain before she burns herself out.
There. Is. No. Female. SSH.
Just stop it already.
Slept on it. Concur for the simple reason that males regularly form fighting units and females are incapable of doing so.
Thanks for the education.
What about women who compete in male hierarchies by mimicking men? Was Margaret Thatcher an Alpha male? Possibly the exception to the rule?
Not trying to contradict you, more asking how to consider women mimicking male positions in the SSH. Irrespective of their competence or otherwise the vast majority will still exhibit female behaviours as much as they might try to keep them hidden.
There. Is. No. Female. SSH.
Stop it, for the love of all that is good and holy. The SSH has NOTHING to do with women.
There are plenty of sites dedicated to women. This is not one of them.
Aye Aye Sir. But there is something there, Lord only knows what it is. Hoped the SDL could help. Female biological and mental wiring is definitely very different and irrational. Although change does happen, although very little with time. On the line, definitely one could see the queen bee among the ladies, never could figure out the why, just that they were. Kind of like a mafia boss. Just like the male SSH being disclosed, the existence of a female a SSH is kind of a search for the holy grail. Mea Culpa. I reach for the stars and I fail, yet I still try. Never give up,
Not a hierarchy* but a matrix.
And Vox has been correct from day one. Whatever the FSSM is is not for the men to be figuring out. Which has to be frustrating, because the women are going to do it, if they do it, sideways, with misdirection.
*Or at least not one a man would recognize with ranks and order**. There will be a woman in every group to which other women defer, women who have overlapping spheres of influence, and women who have none outside their family. And there are women who very much want their to be a female hierarchy with them at the top.
**Except for their part in the human hierarchy of God, men, women, children, and creation.
I almost wrote a wall of text on this yesterday, but decided against it. You are completely right, Codex. Masculinity is vertical and thus hierarchical. Femininity is horizontal, thus matrix or web or whatever other poetic illustration one wishes to use. They are necessarily, functionally different from the chromosomes out, and there is no way to shoehorn the structure of female social dynamics into a masculine social structure. It's like trying to quantify weight in units of brightness, a massive category error.
"Femininity is horizontal, thus matrix or web or whatever other poetic illustration one wishes to use."
Makes me think of music. It's less about picking out individuals and their specific roles, and more identifying the group's sound and how women harmonize into it.
There's a semblance od one where male hierarchies bring in their wives as adjunct. In the Navy, the officer's wives had spheres of responsibility related to their husband's. And yet at the same time, the female power structure ran along in a parallel track, all the more influential because the wives perforce exercised delegated power in tthir homes sans husband for months at a time (6 months, once IIRC).
And woe betide the Captain's wife who failed to recognize the high influence women. Mom recruited one such, from the enlisted wives to be her XO. Worked a treat.
I would think trying to consider a female hierarchy is a category error.
Male social structure is rigid. That's why solid hierarchies exist with it. Changes can occur, but overall it's pretty much steady-state.
Female social structure is fluid. There cannot be a structure because it's not built of interlocking pieces, but relationships constantly in flux. Imagine female social structure as water.... in a container.... strapped to the back of a cocaine-fueled cat chasing a laser pointer in a field of rakes.
At least, that's my take on it. I could be wrong.
I like your analogy. However, as one who has always pursued the patterns and mathematics behind chaos theory I simply can’t let go. Not sure about their fluidity. Seems pretty constant to me with decades of exposure to them. Certain rules do apply. They can turn quickly for whatever reason. Logic ain’t. What they said doesn’t matter, only now matters. Feeling they can’t or won’t explain or express matter. Expect irrational and unjustified behavior. You are wrong.
While I do applaud and strongly support Vox for his Male SSH I do wish he could even consider there might be some rules along those lines for females. I’m not smart enough to come up with it but there must be something along those lines we males are immersed in and missing. Maybe not a hierarchy but a set of rules to follow. Lord know the average guy could use them.
Reminds me of Fourier transforms and the frequency domain. Women are not constant, but they do have predictable patterns.
So there is probably a need to switch to a different domain rather than try to treat women as a constant value over time. Attempts to use the male SSH as the baseline makes the same old mistake of treating women as men with boobs.
Women are orthogonal to the SSH due to their complementary nature.
There are patterns and maybe even types of mathematical predictability with women. But there's not a _hierarchy_ like there is with men.
As for fluidity, the women themselves may be fairly constant, but life isn't. One never knows who any given woman will run into on any given day affecting her personal feelings or group or status, or how a relationship might suddenly change on a dime. That's the fluid part.
You are onto something with regard to fluidity. Watched females change attitudes faster than any male for trivial issues. Requires further thought. Thank you.
It is a system of dynamics. There are forces and drivers. Sometimes they reach saddlepoints, but they are so fleeting that they are irrelevant for modeling purposes.
There is a reason why girls parasitize off of the male hierarchy (wife of Alpha trying to boss other wives around), because vast majority of them cannot manage complex organizations on their own. There is a reason that matriarchal societies are inherently flat.
Flat and unstable. You are on to something there. Fleeting elements are sometimes the key to solving the puzzle. There may be reversal points.
Seeing a fight right now at work between two higher ups, a Delta and Gamma. The Gamma has been quite good at taking over departments, including mine, because he speaks well in meetings and works a lot. The Delta is a local who is good at his job, head of HR and Internal Affairs. The fight was a petty matter, but the Gamma made the Delta look like a fool (Gamma is objectively smarter). The Alpha who is president is siding with the Delta, because he knows he'll have more loyalty and less drama with him in the long run, which baffles the Gamma.
When Gammas learn to be useful, they still need to be held at arms length lest they take on too much power. Deltas can't make executive decisions, but they're much more reliable and would never dream of the kind of avarice a Gamma can hold.
Expel the gamma.
I think he’s going to leave for a job where he can feel more appreciated. It might actually make him more useful, and fix some of the worse tendencies.
Youth sports are where Deltas impart the Delta understanding a high-functioning society needs. I’m far from a Delta, but was a consummate one on the court. Not good enough to be a star and really wanted to play meant embracing a role. Otherwise you get cut. Recognizing the necessity of that at a young age is one of those lessons that imprints for life. And it doesn’t happen without Delta coaches.
There’s two streams now - socialized young men and soylents. They even appear physiologically different. Interesting times ahead.
One of the most critical losses to the BSA in the past decade or so is the loss of support from the Mormons. It was caused by SJW agendas taking over. Locally, they did the necessary things nobody else wanted to.
Needed a specific badge for Eagle? As long as hiking/camping weren't essential to it, our local Mormon troops hosted a fair twice a year where you could get any of them in 3 weekends. Anyone could attend for $20 per badge. This included badges such as First Aid and Emergency Preparedness, the sort of skills that made the program prestigious in the first place.
But I'm sure going into the woods with gay Scoutmasters and teen girls with minimal supervision can teach them a lot, too.
Scouts are a great example of running the Deltas out of an organization, usually by women and gammas. The ex-wife was apoplectic when our son said he was done with scouts. All her brothers were eagle scouts, doncha'know. She was even more pissed when she found I was behind it.
We were on a camp where the BS invited the Webelos to transition up. At one point we were hiking and the boy asked if I were ever a scout. I said that I never made it. We got sick of the dumb campouts and activities and always peeled off by ourselves so we figured the hell with it and just did our thing. Besides, the old man couldn't stand the den mothers and [gamma] fathers. I told him to never do something like this, that you don't want to do, because a woman, even your mom, wants it. I didn't tell him that I had no intention of spending my weekends tenting in the Texas heat with the troop of whipped bozos running the group. He figured it out though.
It was the first of many life lessons about control freaks and buzz killers for the boy. So I guess there is some value in the process.
I would add that the Eagle Scout rank is just a certificate, it doesn't make you better, smarter, or more capable.
Plenty of parents do the real work on the project for their kids, so that they can check off another credential for college admissions.
I did cub scouts for 2 years back in 79-80. The troop was run by both parents of a kind of weird kid. Looking back I would call them a hippie family. I remember getting yelled at for throwing rocks in a river on one of our hikes because I was "disturbing nature". There was one annoying kid who was always messing with me or my stuff at meetings. My favorite memory is when my dad told me to punch him in the nose if he messed with me again. At the next meeting I walked up to the kid and said "My dad told to me to punch you in the face if you bother me again." He got this shocked and surprised look on his face, and never annoyed me after that.
Well done. That is exactly how I would've gone about it, too.
Deltas are the backbone of civilization. Their absence could lead to its collapse.
After reading this, I need to do some thinking about my own organization and how I can use my influence over it (I don't own or control it) to improve the lot of my Delta colleagues. I can tell that their existence, while not bad, is far less than optimal.
My view is that this site, its posts and comments are really a form of forbidden alternative management tech. I've never gone to business school (nor would I at this point) but I can tell that most of their graduates are filled to the brim with counter-knowledge and have really no idea what we are here to do.
Corporations have been dysfunctional since the time of the Boomers. We can't fix them.
Only way to be a good manager, and build a solid team is to start your own business, and keep it small-ish.
Any large-ish group of ppl will end up being a representation of society. And society is messed up rn.
I was in the Scouts towards the end, and we all felt something had already been lost. In addition to general bans on things boys find fun, there was a massive push from the adults for "boy-led troops" in which none of those words applied.
Try to institute penalties for showing up out of uniform? That's "hazing"
Planning a troop activity that wasn't generic camping? You need to get everything approved by the scoutmasters, who will invariably turn it into another generic camping trip
Organizing a troop merit badge course? Too bad you don't want to do Citizenship in the World - denied
The only position that even resembled authority was the Troop Guide, because he was in charge of keeping the snot-noses from setting themselves on fire or starving, and even his authority was undermined by the scoutmistress who sleeps in a camper.
Was going to take issue with the crack about only deltas & predators but then realised that my primary focus is rooting out who the pederasts & gammas are so that I know my kid is ok.