There's a manifestation of Delta idealization I've experienced repeatedly that I haven't seen talked about much: projection of their "type" onto a woman. I dated Deltas for longer than I should have, and one of the reasons I started to avoid dating them was because they would want to view me as this approachable, cutesy, innocent, girl-next-door type. I'm not.
On a separate note, High Deltas sometimes seem almost like their own category to me, and they are strongly rewarded by the communities I'm in. In my experience, they can be very ambitious, but I do notice that compared to high status men, there is still a mild sense of "cluelessness" that I can sense in their thought patterns when they speak.
Another thing is that I've lived in several different states, and each time the communities I was in were disproportionately filled with Deltas far more so than any other type. It seems like in these communities a lot of women date and marry deltas, and some of them actually scorn higher status men behind their backs unless those higher status men can fit into social norms, hygiene norms, etc. extremely well and act very humble and modest to boot. It seems like the socially acceptable option for marriage is a very physically attractive and very quiet Delta who doesn't stir the pot. This is true even for two of my sisters who are both high in openness. I think the phenomenon is somewhat similar to what this video is referring to: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZAvwqt31jIM
Interesting. It's like women have split into those who specialise in getting with Deltas exclusively. And the more attractive that still go for Alphas and Bravos.
A woman friend of mine asked me a question at dinner one night. Just she and I having a girls night out, catching up; we're both newlyweds of less than 5 years at the tine. I met her in my 20s and we were good friend. She had know my husband as a teen, longer than she knew me.
She seemed almost embraced to ask, "Hey, listen, Olga. How did you get 'Husband' to marry you? A bunch of us girls were talking and some are convinced that you bullied him into it."
I was so surprised at the question.
"What makes you think that he can be bullied?"
"Well, we've all know him since kids. He's just so quiet and meek and not outgoing like you. It's like you can control him."
I agreed, "Yes. He is all that. But you have known me for a decade. What about ME makes you think that I want to be around a man that I can control?!"
She agreed that no way did she see me with a guy that was a weakling.
I never knew this pushover boy she was describing. I met a confidant man, who was attractive to me precisely because he was quiet and not trying to prove anything. It may just be that Deltas are late bloomers. Or at least mine husband is, by his own account.
Deltas seem to be the most versatile of the SSH ranks. They seem to be able to fill most roles throughout society and help maintain the status quo. With their desire to be good and their innate competence, they are kind and patient, sometimes to a fault. They tolerate massive amounts of abuse when they assume that it is normal for that circumstance. They tend to enforce and embody the societal standards that they have taught are correct, e.g. good husbands provide for the family, therefore, work 80-hour weeks; being involved in Church - deacons, elders, pastors, or other social clubs; HOA boards (sometimes keeping the really obnoxious people off because those people are being ridiculous); being the head of the household, if that is the dominant cultural norm. If the dominant cultural norm is different, they will embody that and teach that to their children. They are gatekeepers to some extent. This prevents wild fluctuations and upheaval that would be otherwise present. Chaos is counterproductive to civilization.
I think of them as embodying inertia. They will move in one direction until they are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that that direction is wrong, then they will change. Changing their mind is difficult and not fast, but when they do change their mind, the change in direction can be sudden. (How long does it take to convince a critical mass of men that what is happening is not okay and needs to change? Thinking of revolutions and acceptance of new technologies.) They are steadfast. Their core beliefs in right and wrong tend to be unshakable.
They emulate the behaviors of perceived successful people around them. This is why they can start businesses and make a good living or temporarily step in for a retiring boss during a transition; they tolerate some atrocious behavior. When they are taught to treat women with respect, they are trustworthy in all-female environments.
When I think of Deltas, I associate them with nervous prey animals, like gazelles grazing in tall grass, always alert and ready to startle.
In my interactions with them, there is a distinct skittishness until I consciously put them at ease, much like a lion lowering its posture to keep the herd calm. I end up doing the social equivalent, softening my energy, using humor or warmth, and subtly signaling that I am safely off the market. I will mention that I have been married for over twenty years, that I have older children, small cues that seem to reassure them I am not available or evaluating them.
Once those signals land, they relax and engage normally. I do not resent it exactly, but I do find it annoying, having to soothe and settle men who are visibly nervous simply because of my physical presence.
That same nervousness is precisely why they are unattractive to me. I have heard it said that women are attracted to men who are a perceived threat to other men. I think that is true, because if a man cannot even handle being around me, then it is unlikely he poses any threat to other men. Without that commanding and reassuring presence, my respect for him is gone, and my attraction is non-existent.
It is obvious you are married to a high-status man. Is he Alpha, Bravo, or Sigma? What qualities do you find attractive in him that you perceive as absent in Deltas?
Correct. My husband is an alpha. If I extricate his physical qualities and focus only on his presence and behavior, I am attracted to the following:
-sturdiness of character
-unflappable composure
-intrinsic good will
-ability to command a room (me included)
-not intimidated by anyone
-his belief in himself
-his gentleness
-his “street smarts”
There are others… but when compared to a delta, the combination is unlikely. If I had to sum up the key differentiating trait, he is a strong leader for both others, and especially important, myself.
I don't have a lot of deltas in my close circles, so I had to go back and read the assignment to make sure my opinion is one of those solicited. Since you asked for women's experiences generally, I guess I can opine. Deltas are terrified of me, and I don't know why. My husband (Bravo) got comments from several of our mutual friends when we started dating, like "how did you tame her"? I'm not at all bitchy or scary, but I guess like most women I give off that vibe to guys I don't want to connect with. I'm not proud to say it, but when a Delta fellow did get the courage to ask for a date or become even friends, I found them very easy to manipulate and take advantage of. I didn't actually *do* that, mind you. I just got an icky feeling from how much they were willing to do for a first date, or a birthday, for instance, and cut them loose because of the too-fawning attachment. Maintain distance a bit, fellows. I want to be led, not petted. Or worse, pedestalized.
"Deltas are terrified of me, and I don't know why."
Because you're more than the average delta. If the Supreme Dark Lord's IQ is somewhere in the 150 range, then he is just plain taller than everyone else. And tens date other tens, nines and eights.
If deltas are average men, then they wish that the above-average men and women would be friendly. Average teenage boys lift as much as the most athletic college-aged women lift.
> ... I found [delta fellows] very easy to manipulate and take advantage of.
I had to step away, hold back my laughter when my sister sweet talked one of her guy friends during a college visit. I realized then, most men cannot handle attractive women.
“ I just got an icky feeling from how much they were willing to do for a first date, or a birthday, for instance, and cut them loose because of the too-fawning attachment.”
Congratulations, you have morals. Wonderful! Love to read that.
The manipulation angle is a critical trip wire for guys. Grew up around military bases and observed the professional female manipulators working off base. Helped looking like a GI wearing GI BC glasses and could go places where I wasn’t close to legal age. The original don’t ask don’t tell. The manipulation inoculation occurred in very early teens . Most males don’t have that early education. Not cynical but aware of the tricks and risks. Avoided a lot of problems. Pitied the poor deltas who constantly fell for it.
It is a self awareness and communication level issue, in that someone like yourself paying attention to someone like them completely flummoxed them. You were above their level and they knew it.
My girlfriend back then, wife of 48+ years now, wore very little make up back then and still doesn’t. She didn’t need it then or now. Takes care of herself. Still running races. Still beautiful to me. And she was a model. (Yes Vox, I am happy to say that. Although friends were always asking how did you get her? What can she see in you? You, of all people!! And I would just laugh.)
We were a pretty relaxed group, just playing video games and cards every day. Me and one or two girls and a bunch of guys. I didn’t friend-zone them on purpose, but I didn’t realize they even thought of me that way until my current husband came along. We were just having fun and being friends, as far as I knew. Didn’t know anybody was scared of me! They were pretty much all deltas, looking back, and they were my safe place to go. Another point in the Delta’s favor.
Well, I know a few female fighters. They generally look good, are healthy and reasonably pleasant. I'm sure deltas find them attractive, but they don't approach them. You usually get comments like "Oh, I wouldn't want to be the guy with her", "Oh, with her you're gonna be the one to wash the dishes", that sort of thing. Those generally annoy me, because I think those women do put effort to be pleasant around us, but I don't know if they act the same around deltas. I also don't know if deltas are apprehensive around them because of their good shape, because they might behave differently with them of because of all the alphas around them.
No. I like to run and lift but just to keep moving and stay healthy. Extreme sports are...extreme. They don't usually end in a good look or good health.
Also, it's not fair of me not to mention that I find the competence Deltas have to be very attractive, if they could just acquire the swagger that ought to go along with that. A man who can fix your stuff is hot, truly.
I didn't marry delta, but pretty much every male in my family is delta. While of course individuals vary, generally they're good men and make for good husbands. The absolute best would be the ones who are comfortable enough to be situational alphas in the home.
Totally agree with what previous women have said, where things go wrong is when they get comfortable letting the wife completely lead the household while otherwise being passive/ complacent. Most women don't want to be both his wife and his mother, and when they start describing their men as the other child, it can get ugly.
Married to a high delta who's more intelligent (and has higher education credentials) - I could not have found a more perfect match. Smart women will go find themselves a compatible delta! The major thing I would caution deltas against is letting your wife "specialize" and take over basic life & family tasks, such that the delta goes into Roomba Standby unless asked to do something around the house or with the kids. Treating your wife like the boss of the house who has to give you a list of tasks before you'll maintain your living environment or relationships with her or the children causes MASSIVE resentment in women, this is the #1 cause of all the complaints about the "mental load" - she's having to give direction to her husband to do obvious tasks the same way she has to teach her children basic living skills and women HATE that with the burning fire of a thousand dying suns. Demonstrating competence in areas your wife sees and cares about is incredibly important and it seems as if the delta narcissism gets in the way of that in many cases.
Deltas are usually really nice, dependable, sweet guys. They're the kind of guy you feel safe with because you know where you stand. They don't play games in a relationship, and they're pretty easy to get along with.
The single most annoying thing about Deltas is when they abdicate their role as men, to the women, because they don't want to interfere or be yelled at for doing something. I get the desire behind it, to not screw up or feel bad, but as a woman it's annoying.
The whole "happy wife, happy life" thing makes me want to scream because I don't see it as a cute, sweet thing. I see it as a cop out. I see it as you basically not wanting to man up and make the decisions, possibly being the bad guy when needed, and thereby forcing me to have to do it instead. Because if I don't, nothing will ever get done or decided!
The wishy-washy, ho-hum attitude towards stuff just gives me anxiety and makes me resentful and angry. Piling everything on to the woman to do, and acting like you're doing it because it's what she "wants" is probably one of the biggest reasons why some Delta wives are so unhappy.
My dad is a classic delta. He would do anything for his family. He also overlooked a lot of things in order to keep his family together.
My mother treated him terribly and she chose to sleep around. My dad gave her so many chances to change her behavior and she never did. Eventually he kicked her out (I don't know what the breaking point was).
My first stepmom was very rude to me and my brother, but my dad was enamored with her. Again, he overlooked a lot of things about his "better half ". She ended up passing away, and my dad told me he didn't want to be alone.
A couple years later he married again. She is nicer to me but soon after the wedding she started making comments about him. Little snippy comments about things she doesn't like. She loves the fact he would do anything for her, but when he's not around she will b*tch about little things he does wrong.
Re. the stepmoms, my delta dad found a similar dynamic with his second wife. She was especially terrible when they were younger, but she was also probably the only woman around who preferred a man who would let her control almost everything.
Delta contented-ness is their greatest asset and thier greatest liability. I know, to my core, that if I decided I was going to make cheese and ketchup sandwhiches for dinner for the rest of our lives, my husband would literally be fine with it. That knowledge is comforting and maddening. I think women who marry Deltas kind of need to accept that they are the visionary of the relationship/family trajectory. They get to have the dreams and ambitions and they just need to sales-pitch thier husband in. If they can re-orient themselves to "visionary" vs. "boss-lady" it would give the Delta enough space to be able to say no (like when you have a bad day or your hormones are up and randomly decide you want to scrap everything and try something else) but it relieves the Delta of the job of having to come up with a plan. I
Every time I've asked my husband something along the "what is your five year plan" thought-line he tells me it never even crosses his mind. Maybe we can think of Deltas as horsepower? He is the horsepower and you get to turn the steering wheel mostly.
That seems like a tough role. I appreciate your resilient mindset. I think of the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "Men are the head of the house, but women are the NECK. And the neck can turn the head any which way it wants to go" Of course, Greece as it is today has seen better days but at least this is a modicum of complimentarianism within an undesirable dynamic. Personally, I feel I benefit on an individual level because the women with this mindset make unbelievably good meals, but it may come at the cost of a happy coupling which I find regrettable.
Other men have actual women and get on with their lives. Having a mate is important, and they can inspire you, but the entire concept of a "muse" is a weak male fantasy.
A little off topic, but I hope to piggyback on the Subject of delta. Was watchin GodFather lately and young Deniro's Michel struck me as a Delta. He is not competing with any alphas in his circles, not exactly an enforcer, very loyal to both his family and the nation. isnt that a classic delta portreyal ?
One of the best things about Deltas is the way they will take something like being a husband or being a father and make it their mission to be a Good Husband/Father(tm). Motivated Deltas really make the best husbands and fathers. But you can't trust that they'll always get it right the first time, though. A wife might want more time with her Delta husband while his idea of being The Good Husband is to provide for her, so naturally he works 80 hour weeks.
The downside to Deltas is definitely their Delta narcissism and their aversion to conflict (with women especially). If a Delta has got in into his head that being a good guy means always "believing the best about people" or "compromising" in order to solve conflict he'll end up tolerating way too much disrespect, manipulative behavior and outright abuse at times. This will of course also lower his status in the eyes of men and women alike.
If I could give some advice to married Deltas it would be to 1) stop tolerating disrespect and 2) stop avoiding conflict all the time. We know you get pissed off at our shenanigans so trying to act like everything's fine is not going to work. Besides, you only get passive aggressive when you do that.
This hits close to home. I have to intentionally set aside bonding time with the wife and kids. Luckily, I have a wife who is aware of this weakness, and articulates herself before it turns to resentment.
Conflict and risk avoidance are a primary trait of the Delta. A man can increase his tolerance some, but it's innate in a Delta.
Delta men are generally very sweet and loving, which can help to win a woman's heart in the first place.
But then they quickly settle into a boss and employee relationship with their wives. She's the boss, not because she wants to be, but because he cannot handle any kind of negative reaction from her, whether intentional or not. At work Deltas obey orders but grumble about it. At home they do the same thing, agreeing to the wife's plans but then griping about it the whole time, then are surprised when she's not happy with them. I've seen too many marriages trapped in this dynamic, when the husband saying "No" now and then would have fixed everything.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were. The deltas I've met haven't been very crafty or persuasive. When men are sorted into officers and soldiers, the persuasive talkers and the persuaded tools, deltas are followers. Not leaders.
The women who are kind and loving to deltas often treat the deltas as big children or big dogs. Women expect more guile and wisdom from higher-ranking men.
I'm unmarried, so anyone may correct me if I'm entirely off-base here, but I think that, not only can a man make a woman happy; most of this Delta conversation is about the particulars of that.
Men who act/behave correctly *do* make women happy. What the women don't want is to have to *tell* their man how to make them happy, or worse, to *make them* do the things that make them happy. Almost every female response in this thread has incorporated some form of "I don't want to be in charge." Not only is that essentially externalization, it's also a massive risk to the woman having to make that choice.
The risk of picking one man is equal to the sum of the results of every decision he makes for their family thereafter.
Also, the idea that a Delta might find himself saying "I *want* to make her happy, but she won't *let* me"-
For a woman to be happy, if circumstances are good, she still has to choose to be happy, or else she won't be. That's something important to look for in a wife: is she generally sweet and joyful, no matter the circumstances?
“Men who act/behave correctly *do* make women happy.”
This is wrong more often than right. A man can be the pinnacle of masculinity and virtue and women will still complain about him. Their preferences change every five minutes, so a man who’s doing it “right” one day will be doing it “wrong” in the eyes of the woman before you know it. It’s best to ignore their preferences and tell them how it’s going to be. They generally prefer it that way.
Vox's comment on any sized purchase being essentially "fiver" value was illustrative to me, and helped me understand what I've been seeing forever.
Regardless of their abilities and awareness, it's better to assume they don't get it and just say the rules.
I also had to learn to just ban my wife from doing things versus using civilized language, because she would re-interpret that for wiggle room, instead of being implicitly told shes never allowed. Then she's happier knowing the boundaries.
The biggest lie I ever learned was people basically being the same. That's true in a way, and wrong in how it will ruin everything you try to apply it to.
Yes a lot of men have this idea that once they “lock down” a woman, they can relax and start behaving completely differently. Major Delta problem. He was masculine enough on the first date, but by month 3 it’s all “yes babe”.
Exactly how I found the RedPill during drama with wife #1. I always behave now as if I can take her or leave her dependent on her behavior by default now. My current wife thinks it's not sweet/romantic (probably because her influence over me is minimal), but I already know the road of "happy wife, happy life". It ends with 2 unhappy people. I'd rather put the unhappy element to the curb now, than be dragged down with it in all types of relationships, including romantic ones.
The same reason my wife doesn't like it. It feels unromantic and chafes when it doesn't feel like your husband is obsessed with you. I prefer my relationships the other way around; which is healthier dynamic than the common modern one.
It’s my understanding based on work/ church experience as well as reading sigma game that most men/ average guys fall into the delta category.
One of Delta’s positive attributes are being very capable at work/ whatever field they excel, a definite plus if they have some sort of hobby outside of that that they do well in ( i.e being able to fix things at home, a sport involving skill or even being good with a grill or cooking) , I think because it shows they are intelligent/able enough to survive possible hardship and therefore help their wife and children survive if things get rough. Usefulness/ being capable can be a very attractive attribute to women. Another positive is that most Delta’s probably don’t have an over amount of arrogance, they seem to be good at getting on with what must be done , or what they are responsible for and in marriage if both parties can be this way the couple has a much better chance at success together and as a family.
Something I’d consider a possible negative for Deltas is that they may be too apt to follow the status quo or think because something doesn’t make sense to them surely it’s not the norm. And in a society like we have today this can be very detrimental and naive.
When the US was a reasonably decent society ( perhaps back in the 40s and 50s) following the norm and trusting your leadership may not have been as harmful because you could still make a living and provide for your family without needing to have too much foresight or fear of being messed with. I think about how many average guys I have worked with or was in church with that fell for a lot of the Covid nonsense or woke guilt traps. Today’s Deltas ( as well as pretty much everyone in general) need to be more shrewd than their predecessors, particularly men leading their families. Shrewdness is also ,I imagine ,useful for men concerning women. I know most of us are probably difficult to understand especially for men who are very logical. I think of the countless times friends of mine have talked about how they had to basically spell out that they were interested in a guy or explain why something some other girl said was a dig to their boyfriends or husbands. I don’t blame men for not being savvy to how women interact with eachother as it’s can all be very hard to follow, but if a guy can at least pick up on a shift in the room or that something is off with women in a group setting maybe that means he can discern other subtleties in different more important situations.
Overall Deltas seem to be decent average guys and can make very good family men, they just need to be wise to a society that is unfortunately against them .
I am not very up on movies or shows so can’t think of many good media examples of a Delta . A positive although outdated example may be Andy Taylor in the Andy Griffith show. He was a decent , hard working guy who wasn’t looking to move on to “bigger and better” things , but still played good role in his community and although he was decent with women still stepped in it from time to time. Due to his position as sheriff he had opportunity to be a leader at times when it was necessary and so long as the situation wasn’t too serious/ dangerous ( it never was in Mayberry lol) he did just fine 😊
There's a manifestation of Delta idealization I've experienced repeatedly that I haven't seen talked about much: projection of their "type" onto a woman. I dated Deltas for longer than I should have, and one of the reasons I started to avoid dating them was because they would want to view me as this approachable, cutesy, innocent, girl-next-door type. I'm not.
On a separate note, High Deltas sometimes seem almost like their own category to me, and they are strongly rewarded by the communities I'm in. In my experience, they can be very ambitious, but I do notice that compared to high status men, there is still a mild sense of "cluelessness" that I can sense in their thought patterns when they speak.
Another thing is that I've lived in several different states, and each time the communities I was in were disproportionately filled with Deltas far more so than any other type. It seems like in these communities a lot of women date and marry deltas, and some of them actually scorn higher status men behind their backs unless those higher status men can fit into social norms, hygiene norms, etc. extremely well and act very humble and modest to boot. It seems like the socially acceptable option for marriage is a very physically attractive and very quiet Delta who doesn't stir the pot. This is true even for two of my sisters who are both high in openness. I think the phenomenon is somewhat similar to what this video is referring to: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZAvwqt31jIM
Interesting. It's like women have split into those who specialise in getting with Deltas exclusively. And the more attractive that still go for Alphas and Bravos.
A woman friend of mine asked me a question at dinner one night. Just she and I having a girls night out, catching up; we're both newlyweds of less than 5 years at the tine. I met her in my 20s and we were good friend. She had know my husband as a teen, longer than she knew me.
She seemed almost embraced to ask, "Hey, listen, Olga. How did you get 'Husband' to marry you? A bunch of us girls were talking and some are convinced that you bullied him into it."
I was so surprised at the question.
"What makes you think that he can be bullied?"
"Well, we've all know him since kids. He's just so quiet and meek and not outgoing like you. It's like you can control him."
I agreed, "Yes. He is all that. But you have known me for a decade. What about ME makes you think that I want to be around a man that I can control?!"
She agreed that no way did she see me with a guy that was a weakling.
I never knew this pushover boy she was describing. I met a confidant man, who was attractive to me precisely because he was quiet and not trying to prove anything. It may just be that Deltas are late bloomers. Or at least mine husband is, by his own account.
Deltas seem to be the most versatile of the SSH ranks. They seem to be able to fill most roles throughout society and help maintain the status quo. With their desire to be good and their innate competence, they are kind and patient, sometimes to a fault. They tolerate massive amounts of abuse when they assume that it is normal for that circumstance. They tend to enforce and embody the societal standards that they have taught are correct, e.g. good husbands provide for the family, therefore, work 80-hour weeks; being involved in Church - deacons, elders, pastors, or other social clubs; HOA boards (sometimes keeping the really obnoxious people off because those people are being ridiculous); being the head of the household, if that is the dominant cultural norm. If the dominant cultural norm is different, they will embody that and teach that to their children. They are gatekeepers to some extent. This prevents wild fluctuations and upheaval that would be otherwise present. Chaos is counterproductive to civilization.
I think of them as embodying inertia. They will move in one direction until they are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that that direction is wrong, then they will change. Changing their mind is difficult and not fast, but when they do change their mind, the change in direction can be sudden. (How long does it take to convince a critical mass of men that what is happening is not okay and needs to change? Thinking of revolutions and acceptance of new technologies.) They are steadfast. Their core beliefs in right and wrong tend to be unshakable.
They emulate the behaviors of perceived successful people around them. This is why they can start businesses and make a good living or temporarily step in for a retiring boss during a transition; they tolerate some atrocious behavior. When they are taught to treat women with respect, they are trustworthy in all-female environments.
Absolutely correct. Unfortunately in today’s clown world is even harder for the any male to figure out the truth. Please see (mea culpa Vox) : https://www.compactmag.com/article/the-great-feminization/
Forgive me for being off topic: odds Marshawn Kneeland was suicided for not complying with a point shaving scheme or some other form of gambling?
Delta husbands...
Handy
Thrifty
Confidant with their tools
Trusted by their wives
What's not to love?!
https://youtube.com/shorts/feyI3Y5t9Rc?si=dk1CzsFo7iuqt3x3
When I think of Deltas, I associate them with nervous prey animals, like gazelles grazing in tall grass, always alert and ready to startle.
In my interactions with them, there is a distinct skittishness until I consciously put them at ease, much like a lion lowering its posture to keep the herd calm. I end up doing the social equivalent, softening my energy, using humor or warmth, and subtly signaling that I am safely off the market. I will mention that I have been married for over twenty years, that I have older children, small cues that seem to reassure them I am not available or evaluating them.
Once those signals land, they relax and engage normally. I do not resent it exactly, but I do find it annoying, having to soothe and settle men who are visibly nervous simply because of my physical presence.
That same nervousness is precisely why they are unattractive to me. I have heard it said that women are attracted to men who are a perceived threat to other men. I think that is true, because if a man cannot even handle being around me, then it is unlikely he poses any threat to other men. Without that commanding and reassuring presence, my respect for him is gone, and my attraction is non-existent.
It is obvious you are married to a high-status man. Is he Alpha, Bravo, or Sigma? What qualities do you find attractive in him that you perceive as absent in Deltas?
Correct. My husband is an alpha. If I extricate his physical qualities and focus only on his presence and behavior, I am attracted to the following:
-sturdiness of character
-unflappable composure
-intrinsic good will
-ability to command a room (me included)
-not intimidated by anyone
-his belief in himself
-his gentleness
-his “street smarts”
There are others… but when compared to a delta, the combination is unlikely. If I had to sum up the key differentiating trait, he is a strong leader for both others, and especially important, myself.
I don't have a lot of deltas in my close circles, so I had to go back and read the assignment to make sure my opinion is one of those solicited. Since you asked for women's experiences generally, I guess I can opine. Deltas are terrified of me, and I don't know why. My husband (Bravo) got comments from several of our mutual friends when we started dating, like "how did you tame her"? I'm not at all bitchy or scary, but I guess like most women I give off that vibe to guys I don't want to connect with. I'm not proud to say it, but when a Delta fellow did get the courage to ask for a date or become even friends, I found them very easy to manipulate and take advantage of. I didn't actually *do* that, mind you. I just got an icky feeling from how much they were willing to do for a first date, or a birthday, for instance, and cut them loose because of the too-fawning attachment. Maintain distance a bit, fellows. I want to be led, not petted. Or worse, pedestalized.
"Deltas are terrified of me, and I don't know why."
Because you're more than the average delta. If the Supreme Dark Lord's IQ is somewhere in the 150 range, then he is just plain taller than everyone else. And tens date other tens, nines and eights.
If deltas are average men, then they wish that the above-average men and women would be friendly. Average teenage boys lift as much as the most athletic college-aged women lift.
> ... I found [delta fellows] very easy to manipulate and take advantage of.
I had to step away, hold back my laughter when my sister sweet talked one of her guy friends during a college visit. I realized then, most men cannot handle attractive women.
“ I just got an icky feeling from how much they were willing to do for a first date, or a birthday, for instance, and cut them loose because of the too-fawning attachment.”
Congratulations, you have morals. Wonderful! Love to read that.
The manipulation angle is a critical trip wire for guys. Grew up around military bases and observed the professional female manipulators working off base. Helped looking like a GI wearing GI BC glasses and could go places where I wasn’t close to legal age. The original don’t ask don’t tell. The manipulation inoculation occurred in very early teens . Most males don’t have that early education. Not cynical but aware of the tricks and risks. Avoided a lot of problems. Pitied the poor deltas who constantly fell for it.
It is a self awareness and communication level issue, in that someone like yourself paying attention to someone like them completely flummoxed them. You were above their level and they knew it.
My girlfriend back then, wife of 48+ years now, wore very little make up back then and still doesn’t. She didn’t need it then or now. Takes care of herself. Still running races. Still beautiful to me. And she was a model. (Yes Vox, I am happy to say that. Although friends were always asking how did you get her? What can she see in you? You, of all people!! And I would just laugh.)
You give off "I will reject you" vibes. This is what terrified deltas.
We were a pretty relaxed group, just playing video games and cards every day. Me and one or two girls and a bunch of guys. I didn’t friend-zone them on purpose, but I didn’t realize they even thought of me that way until my current husband came along. We were just having fun and being friends, as far as I knew. Didn’t know anybody was scared of me! They were pretty much all deltas, looking back, and they were my safe place to go. Another point in the Delta’s favor.
> Didn’t know anybody was scared of me!
Not scared of you. Scared of getting rejected by you.
It's not really about you if that makes sense. It is about how getting rejected would make them feel.
Yes, that makes good sense. I was never mean or anything. It wouldn’t have been a harsh rejection. But it would have been a rejection anyhow.
Are you big time in fitness of extreme sports by any chance? I've just heard the same remarks from deltas about women who are.
Help me understand. What remarks are Deltas making about those women?
Well, I know a few female fighters. They generally look good, are healthy and reasonably pleasant. I'm sure deltas find them attractive, but they don't approach them. You usually get comments like "Oh, I wouldn't want to be the guy with her", "Oh, with her you're gonna be the one to wash the dishes", that sort of thing. Those generally annoy me, because I think those women do put effort to be pleasant around us, but I don't know if they act the same around deltas. I also don't know if deltas are apprehensive around them because of their good shape, because they might behave differently with them of because of all the alphas around them.
BTW, I was never into sports at all. I was one of the smart girls, but nobody ever found out, if I could help it. Definitely not scary in that way.
Sweetie, they were scared to ask me out, not competing with me.
Short and fiesty indimidates Deltas, but intrigues Bravos.
Well, yeah, I was talking about deltas outside of the gyms, who don't know them.
No. I like to run and lift but just to keep moving and stay healthy. Extreme sports are...extreme. They don't usually end in a good look or good health.
Also, it's not fair of me not to mention that I find the competence Deltas have to be very attractive, if they could just acquire the swagger that ought to go along with that. A man who can fix your stuff is hot, truly.
I didn't marry delta, but pretty much every male in my family is delta. While of course individuals vary, generally they're good men and make for good husbands. The absolute best would be the ones who are comfortable enough to be situational alphas in the home.
Totally agree with what previous women have said, where things go wrong is when they get comfortable letting the wife completely lead the household while otherwise being passive/ complacent. Most women don't want to be both his wife and his mother, and when they start describing their men as the other child, it can get ugly.
The man himself often starts this when, in response to nagging, the man says something like "ok mom".
He thinks he is insulting her, but he ends up infantilizing himself in her and everyone else's eyes.
Married to a high delta who's more intelligent (and has higher education credentials) - I could not have found a more perfect match. Smart women will go find themselves a compatible delta! The major thing I would caution deltas against is letting your wife "specialize" and take over basic life & family tasks, such that the delta goes into Roomba Standby unless asked to do something around the house or with the kids. Treating your wife like the boss of the house who has to give you a list of tasks before you'll maintain your living environment or relationships with her or the children causes MASSIVE resentment in women, this is the #1 cause of all the complaints about the "mental load" - she's having to give direction to her husband to do obvious tasks the same way she has to teach her children basic living skills and women HATE that with the burning fire of a thousand dying suns. Demonstrating competence in areas your wife sees and cares about is incredibly important and it seems as if the delta narcissism gets in the way of that in many cases.
Deltas are usually really nice, dependable, sweet guys. They're the kind of guy you feel safe with because you know where you stand. They don't play games in a relationship, and they're pretty easy to get along with.
The single most annoying thing about Deltas is when they abdicate their role as men, to the women, because they don't want to interfere or be yelled at for doing something. I get the desire behind it, to not screw up or feel bad, but as a woman it's annoying.
The whole "happy wife, happy life" thing makes me want to scream because I don't see it as a cute, sweet thing. I see it as a cop out. I see it as you basically not wanting to man up and make the decisions, possibly being the bad guy when needed, and thereby forcing me to have to do it instead. Because if I don't, nothing will ever get done or decided!
The wishy-washy, ho-hum attitude towards stuff just gives me anxiety and makes me resentful and angry. Piling everything on to the woman to do, and acting like you're doing it because it's what she "wants" is probably one of the biggest reasons why some Delta wives are so unhappy.
My dad is a classic delta. He would do anything for his family. He also overlooked a lot of things in order to keep his family together.
My mother treated him terribly and she chose to sleep around. My dad gave her so many chances to change her behavior and she never did. Eventually he kicked her out (I don't know what the breaking point was).
My first stepmom was very rude to me and my brother, but my dad was enamored with her. Again, he overlooked a lot of things about his "better half ". She ended up passing away, and my dad told me he didn't want to be alone.
A couple years later he married again. She is nicer to me but soon after the wedding she started making comments about him. Little snippy comments about things she doesn't like. She loves the fact he would do anything for her, but when he's not around she will b*tch about little things he does wrong.
Re. the stepmoms, my delta dad found a similar dynamic with his second wife. She was especially terrible when they were younger, but she was also probably the only woman around who preferred a man who would let her control almost everything.
Delta contented-ness is their greatest asset and thier greatest liability. I know, to my core, that if I decided I was going to make cheese and ketchup sandwhiches for dinner for the rest of our lives, my husband would literally be fine with it. That knowledge is comforting and maddening. I think women who marry Deltas kind of need to accept that they are the visionary of the relationship/family trajectory. They get to have the dreams and ambitions and they just need to sales-pitch thier husband in. If they can re-orient themselves to "visionary" vs. "boss-lady" it would give the Delta enough space to be able to say no (like when you have a bad day or your hormones are up and randomly decide you want to scrap everything and try something else) but it relieves the Delta of the job of having to come up with a plan. I
Every time I've asked my husband something along the "what is your five year plan" thought-line he tells me it never even crosses his mind. Maybe we can think of Deltas as horsepower? He is the horsepower and you get to turn the steering wheel mostly.
That seems like a tough role. I appreciate your resilient mindset. I think of the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding. "Men are the head of the house, but women are the NECK. And the neck can turn the head any which way it wants to go" Of course, Greece as it is today has seen better days but at least this is a modicum of complimentarianism within an undesirable dynamic. Personally, I feel I benefit on an individual level because the women with this mindset make unbelievably good meals, but it may come at the cost of a happy coupling which I find regrettable.
Maybe the term muse? Like being their muse and inspiration, which to them might feel intuitive but to you would require visionary planning.
Could you please clarify:
"which to them (who?) might feel intuitive, but to you (who?) would require, etc."
“Them” = The Deltas.
“You” = The woman.
Dave can correct me if I’m wrong.
A muse does not have to do the thinking. She just *is*.
And who has muses? Gammas.
Other men have actual women and get on with their lives. Having a mate is important, and they can inspire you, but the entire concept of a "muse" is a weak male fantasy.
A little off topic, but I hope to piggyback on the Subject of delta. Was watchin GodFather lately and young Deniro's Michel struck me as a Delta. He is not competing with any alphas in his circles, not exactly an enforcer, very loyal to both his family and the nation. isnt that a classic delta portreyal ?
In my opinion, he's a complicated character with a sharp (unrealistic) character arch.
One of the best things about Deltas is the way they will take something like being a husband or being a father and make it their mission to be a Good Husband/Father(tm). Motivated Deltas really make the best husbands and fathers. But you can't trust that they'll always get it right the first time, though. A wife might want more time with her Delta husband while his idea of being The Good Husband is to provide for her, so naturally he works 80 hour weeks.
The downside to Deltas is definitely their Delta narcissism and their aversion to conflict (with women especially). If a Delta has got in into his head that being a good guy means always "believing the best about people" or "compromising" in order to solve conflict he'll end up tolerating way too much disrespect, manipulative behavior and outright abuse at times. This will of course also lower his status in the eyes of men and women alike.
If I could give some advice to married Deltas it would be to 1) stop tolerating disrespect and 2) stop avoiding conflict all the time. We know you get pissed off at our shenanigans so trying to act like everything's fine is not going to work. Besides, you only get passive aggressive when you do that.
This hits close to home. I have to intentionally set aside bonding time with the wife and kids. Luckily, I have a wife who is aware of this weakness, and articulates herself before it turns to resentment.
Conflict and risk avoidance are a primary trait of the Delta. A man can increase his tolerance some, but it's innate in a Delta.
Delta men are generally very sweet and loving, which can help to win a woman's heart in the first place.
But then they quickly settle into a boss and employee relationship with their wives. She's the boss, not because she wants to be, but because he cannot handle any kind of negative reaction from her, whether intentional or not. At work Deltas obey orders but grumble about it. At home they do the same thing, agreeing to the wife's plans but then griping about it the whole time, then are surprised when she's not happy with them. I've seen too many marriages trapped in this dynamic, when the husband saying "No" now and then would have fixed everything.
Seems like "Happy wife, happy life" phrase was invented by a Delta
I wouldn't be surprised if it were. The deltas I've met haven't been very crafty or persuasive. When men are sorted into officers and soldiers, the persuasive talkers and the persuaded tools, deltas are followers. Not leaders.
The women who are kind and loving to deltas often treat the deltas as big children or big dogs. Women expect more guile and wisdom from higher-ranking men.
That's about as Delta as it gets.
Yeah. I mean, it's true that if your wife is happy, your life will be happy, but those who say that have no idea how to actually make her happy. 😂
I have found “Happy wife, Happy life” to be a less of an aphorism and more of a fallacious proverb.
It’s like the mantra of uninspiring marriages.
It is true that a happy wife promotes a happy life, but as a prescriptive, the saying assumes that a man can “MAKE” his wife happy.
That’s only true if she lets him, exposing the lie which fosters a man’s reliance on his wife’s approval for his own well being.
We are solely responsible for the energy we bring. Anyone who accepts the outsourcing of it from another is a fool.
I'm unmarried, so anyone may correct me if I'm entirely off-base here, but I think that, not only can a man make a woman happy; most of this Delta conversation is about the particulars of that.
Men who act/behave correctly *do* make women happy. What the women don't want is to have to *tell* their man how to make them happy, or worse, to *make them* do the things that make them happy. Almost every female response in this thread has incorporated some form of "I don't want to be in charge." Not only is that essentially externalization, it's also a massive risk to the woman having to make that choice.
The risk of picking one man is equal to the sum of the results of every decision he makes for their family thereafter.
Also, the idea that a Delta might find himself saying "I *want* to make her happy, but she won't *let* me"-
-well, it doesn't sound Delta.
For a woman to be happy, if circumstances are good, she still has to choose to be happy, or else she won't be. That's something important to look for in a wife: is she generally sweet and joyful, no matter the circumstances?
Thank you for sharing that. Do you have a working thought on what typically differentiates women who choose to be happy or indignant?
“Men who act/behave correctly *do* make women happy.”
This is wrong more often than right. A man can be the pinnacle of masculinity and virtue and women will still complain about him. Their preferences change every five minutes, so a man who’s doing it “right” one day will be doing it “wrong” in the eyes of the woman before you know it. It’s best to ignore their preferences and tell them how it’s going to be. They generally prefer it that way.
Vox's comment on any sized purchase being essentially "fiver" value was illustrative to me, and helped me understand what I've been seeing forever.
Regardless of their abilities and awareness, it's better to assume they don't get it and just say the rules.
I also had to learn to just ban my wife from doing things versus using civilized language, because she would re-interpret that for wiggle room, instead of being implicitly told shes never allowed. Then she's happier knowing the boundaries.
The biggest lie I ever learned was people basically being the same. That's true in a way, and wrong in how it will ruin everything you try to apply it to.
I probably should've qualified the term 'correctly'.
I meant it more in the SSH sense of positive, capitol-M Masculinity; less the female's stated preferences.
Yes a lot of men have this idea that once they “lock down” a woman, they can relax and start behaving completely differently. Major Delta problem. He was masculine enough on the first date, but by month 3 it’s all “yes babe”.
Exactly how I found the RedPill during drama with wife #1. I always behave now as if I can take her or leave her dependent on her behavior by default now. My current wife thinks it's not sweet/romantic (probably because her influence over me is minimal), but I already know the road of "happy wife, happy life". It ends with 2 unhappy people. I'd rather put the unhappy element to the curb now, than be dragged down with it in all types of relationships, including romantic ones.
IDK why, but this comment makes me think you didn't learn as much as you think you did. Blow-up #2 incoming.
The same reason my wife doesn't like it. It feels unromantic and chafes when it doesn't feel like your husband is obsessed with you. I prefer my relationships the other way around; which is healthier dynamic than the common modern one.
Yep.
It’s my understanding based on work/ church experience as well as reading sigma game that most men/ average guys fall into the delta category.
One of Delta’s positive attributes are being very capable at work/ whatever field they excel, a definite plus if they have some sort of hobby outside of that that they do well in ( i.e being able to fix things at home, a sport involving skill or even being good with a grill or cooking) , I think because it shows they are intelligent/able enough to survive possible hardship and therefore help their wife and children survive if things get rough. Usefulness/ being capable can be a very attractive attribute to women. Another positive is that most Delta’s probably don’t have an over amount of arrogance, they seem to be good at getting on with what must be done , or what they are responsible for and in marriage if both parties can be this way the couple has a much better chance at success together and as a family.
Something I’d consider a possible negative for Deltas is that they may be too apt to follow the status quo or think because something doesn’t make sense to them surely it’s not the norm. And in a society like we have today this can be very detrimental and naive.
When the US was a reasonably decent society ( perhaps back in the 40s and 50s) following the norm and trusting your leadership may not have been as harmful because you could still make a living and provide for your family without needing to have too much foresight or fear of being messed with. I think about how many average guys I have worked with or was in church with that fell for a lot of the Covid nonsense or woke guilt traps. Today’s Deltas ( as well as pretty much everyone in general) need to be more shrewd than their predecessors, particularly men leading their families. Shrewdness is also ,I imagine ,useful for men concerning women. I know most of us are probably difficult to understand especially for men who are very logical. I think of the countless times friends of mine have talked about how they had to basically spell out that they were interested in a guy or explain why something some other girl said was a dig to their boyfriends or husbands. I don’t blame men for not being savvy to how women interact with eachother as it’s can all be very hard to follow, but if a guy can at least pick up on a shift in the room or that something is off with women in a group setting maybe that means he can discern other subtleties in different more important situations.
Overall Deltas seem to be decent average guys and can make very good family men, they just need to be wise to a society that is unfortunately against them .
I am not very up on movies or shows so can’t think of many good media examples of a Delta . A positive although outdated example may be Andy Taylor in the Andy Griffith show. He was a decent , hard working guy who wasn’t looking to move on to “bigger and better” things , but still played good role in his community and although he was decent with women still stepped in it from time to time. Due to his position as sheriff he had opportunity to be a leader at times when it was necessary and so long as the situation wasn’t too serious/ dangerous ( it never was in Mayberry lol) he did just fine 😊