This dude is barely giving advice. He's just doing an intellectual exercise about a group of people he loathes. Not saying the advice is bad, but if you're a delta who wants a wife, a gaggle of match-making church grannies in real life does more good for your kind in a week than this guy's advice column has ever done. Groveling to this guy's indignant replies is pathetic. Read what he has to say, take what you can from it, then disregard the frustrated nerd and his emotionally invested audience. Don't take people who hate you seriously.
1) You don't have to impress her with your wit. You don't even have to know what to say. The more you can get her to talk about herself, the more she will like you. The nice thing is you can develop this skill, of getting people to talk about themselves, with anyone.
2) If she somehow finds a reason to mention that she doesn't currently have a boyfriend, that means she's interested in you. She probably won't come out and say it, but it will be something like "if I had a boyfriend, I would like for him to know/do this or that". This happened twice to me and wasn't till much later I figured it out.
3) Monkey-branching is a real thing. Just because she has a boyfriend doesn't mean she's not interested in you. Also, once I found myself a month in to dating a girl and then learned that her ex had never been convinced that she seriously wanted him to stop pursuing her. I ended it, not knowing that girls can appear wishy-washy about this kind of thing.
4) There is no reason to be awkward around a friend-girl that you asked out and she turned you down. You have to develop the mindset that she's not a big deal to you. "you're not interested? Great. We can still be friends but I'm moving on."
Mindset Mindset Mindset. This is the great revelation that I got from reading Roissy, Heartiste and the pick-up artists.
Tradgirl seemed to handle that really well. Women can be quite butthurt by rejection, even when it’s the oblivious “Wait…she was flirting with me?!” variety.
I’m at a loss for words at Vox’s wisdom here. There’s only one word that can really describe my impressed astonishment here: Damn.
One word. “Hey.” It’s that freaking simple. I’ve been overthinking it my whole life, worrying about introductions, clever lines, and finding stuff to say. No more of that anymore. A simple “Hey” is all that’s needed. Any more is simply a foolish waste of time.
Of course, this will speed up the rejection process that I do admittedly dislike. But strangely enough, I look forward to the rejections because they will desensitize me to the demands of women and reshape my own anxious ego into one that cares less about itself and more about others.
Think of it like an NFL game. Old school coaches always kicked the field goal in the Red Zone to put off the moment of truth. But analytics showed that there is a higher win percentage if you go for the TD on fourth-and-goal.
All so very true; excellent advise, would have been great 30 years ago.
Was so afraid of rejection and embarassment, that I did not make a move, when cute girl decided to get into my bed with me, after one of our parties. I did not dare touch her; maybe sie just wanted to sleep?
Next morning she said she never met anyone as shy as me 🤣
Well that made things more clear for me, but I had already lost any respect...
Acting on sometimes fairly obvious ioi's has been a huge challenge.
Though I learned, slowly building a little bit more confidence.
You've made it clear that these categories are not really moral, but observations of patterns of behavior. Thus, morally, there are good and wicked alphas, good and wicked bravos and deltas and sigmas.
Is there such a thing as a good gamma? Is gamma a special case in that regard, that the category *does* have moral weight?
I apologize if I'm asking you to explain something you've already covered.
Paul was also a gamma. It's clear that many of the failings of gammas can be turned into positive traits that allow them to ascend into greatness; it's just that the greatness of a gamma is different from the greatness of an alpha.
Every one of the men mentioned was a man of letters.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. Paul only talked about himself in grandiose terms when his authority as an Apostle was challenged, usually by Judaizers who were trying to get Gentile Christians to follow the Torah. He always preceded those statements by expressing regret and having to make them.
I find the sum of traits to be more Sigma. Yes, he triggered dislike, but he consistently performed in high conflict environments and asserted his authority aggressively.
The choice of churches to send him as a missionary to evangelize and plant churches reflects confidence in him to win people.
Would you pick a Gamma to represent your group on an important job? Does choosing leadership for newly planted churches and giving pastoral guidance sound Gamma?
To your empty argument I will point out that he suffered physical beating for the Gospel, planting churches and writing many pastoral epistles that are canonized in the Bible we study even now.
"Maybe it’s folly to try to fit someone as unique as Paul into the SSH?"
The SSH is for categorizing all men based on objective observable behavior. No man is too much of a snowflake to be categorized.
Someone who is socially successful and breaks categories sounds like a Sigma. Men who are in the hierarchy develop into easily recognizable types.
Gammas Always Lie, Project, Double Down. Which of those attributes can we say Paul exhibited? Did he Double Down on the Road to Damascus? No, he immediately yielded to Jesus and submitted himself to his new mission. Then he spent the rest of his life executing that mission with singular focus.
Does Paul act the Secret King? His previous persecution of Christians was in line with the goals of the Jewish leadership and shows an ambitious young man looking to earn glory through zealous competence.
Paul's refused to shun Christian Gentiles when everyone else was doing it. Then he directly confronts the Apostle Peter and calls him out publicly for his unprincipled behavior. That is high status behavior.
Paul is a man of action and his life story does not look like a low status man who wishes he could be greater.
Not every Apostle was a leader type. Most were probably Deltas. But the known Gamma is Judas.
Most people who have the tendency to be a gamma -- midwit or above, knowledge experts, socially inept -- consider themselves to be none of the above. Their delusional self worth makes them align with evil.
Other people with the same tendencies learn to tell the truth, shut up, do the job and have grace. They choose to align with good.
Functional societies reward good behaviour, and have few gammas and none in power. This is not a functional society.
Agreed. The one I am most closely acquainted with is not a bad person, or at least no worse than anyone else I know. He's a great father to his kids and often tries to mentor the younger men in the family, sometimes even with good results. It's just that he's often insufferable, and incapable of admitting when he's wrong.
I agree. Usually the images VD uses leave me cold or unsettled - I think maybe they're just *slightly* uncanny valley and disquiet me at a subconscious level. But this one was oddly charming and made me smile. The problem with it, though, is that anyone who has experience with tortoises as pets know exactly what's coming in the next panel. That reptile is going to stomp on that lovely girl in slow motion and eat all those flowers in the messiest and most inelegant way imaginable.
This makes me think of a lot of false beliefs I had that did not stand the test of time. I grew up with a father that saw his mother abused and overcompensated by putting women on a pedestal they didn't deserve because of it. I wound up with more female friends than male, didn't observe how my male friends interacted with girls, and only heard the complaints from my female friend circle... which when I think about it is probably as bias and unreliable as it sounds... and so I took a "don't bother them" approach. I did not want to be labeled anything my dad saw as his abusive father or a manipulator, playboy, the "bad" guy.
It took years in the post-military to finally rid myself of that knowledge and chase down and aggressively pursue my wife. I noticed the glances, fought the indecision and weak dismissals to finally get her to go out with me and was very forward with showing myself as liking her. We got married in a year.
Hilariously enough, your paragraph about helping other females you are not interested in makes me laugh. I think it might be good to note that Delta behavior can frustrate women you have relationships with because you are too stupid to realize you are having "female friends" and engaging in behavior that is reserved only for someone you care for romantically.
The Dark Herald has coined the term Echo Male to describe young men who could/should be Deltas who are tuned out of the hierarchy and system without hope of progression or improvement.
It's important to note that these young men have the natures of Deltas. Though conditioned into an Omega-like existence, those natures still strive to express themselves.
My first boyfriend's ex told him to ask me out, which he did some weeks later. We had been hanging out for MONTHS. The no-initiative thing is very bothersome, I wish I would have known this then.
One of my close friends is a low delta with some gamma strains and I've talked about his woman troubles here before. The background is that in this friend group there are three of us. Two of us are alpha-types (both married) and he's currently adrift. He struggles with women and how to conduct himself with them because he has very low self-esteem. He's in his mid-50s, short, and stocky. What he has going for him is the gift of gab, talented musician, lots of worldly experience and an excellent job. He dresses well and conducts himself well. Honestly, he's a cool guy. Otherwise, I wouldn't be friends with him. He does not pick up on female cues just like you illustrated in this post. The three of us were together at a large social gathering for a group we all belong to. The three of were hanging around talking when a woman who was a new member introduced herself to us. We talked to her for a while and she was obviously interested. Since two of us are married we just made the usual small talk and thought our friend might engage with her, but he didn't. Later that evening we were talking about her and the interest she showed. Our low status friend was incredulous about her interest. He asked us 'how could you tell?' We laughed at him and asked 'how could you NOT tell?' So, goes the SSH.
The latest with him happened over the last 10 days. First some background: There is a woman that he had previously dated that he was still pining away after. He would go on and on to us about her to the point that we basically sat him down and gave him the 'talk' about getting her back. He followed our advice and he got her back. This was about 6 months ago. Well, last weekend she dumped again and gave him some lame ass excuse about why. She's also retarded, but that's irrelevant. Now, she wants to keep him in her orbit because he's useful and will do things for her. Me and the other guy tried very hard to bring him around to a more useful attitude about this, but to no avail. Vox, maybe I'll send you some screenshots of the texts we got back from him rationalizing his weak position. The adherence to the behavior patterns outlined in the SSH is astounding.
The next thing that happened was him sending us a screenshot of a message and reply he had with a woman on a dating app where he opens with a joke about his short stature to which she responds like one would expect. As you can see, this man is a work in progress for us.
Edit: I decided to remove some of the specific exchanges shared by my friend with us. I want to illustrate a point, but I don't want to publicly humiliate him.
This is absolutely a skillset that *can* be conditioned. I run a hard-close sales team, we meet hundreds of folks every month and if we get a yes one 1 out of 10 times we are doing "good"
Anyone from this industry can naturally introduce themselves and carry a conversation with anyone, at anytime, regardless of them being naturally Introverted or Extroverted
Love your posts brother! I still haven't connected to the whole "Bravos pair with Alpha hand-me-downs..." but I wouldn't have seen that in any small circle I've been in.
I think a small but frequent example for this pattern would be the reaction to an invitation of a mixed travel group. The women check at first how capable the alpha leader would turn out to be. The men check how attractive the women are that the alpha is able to attract before committing to the trip. But on the trip the alpha has not time for every women all the time so they are encouraged to check out the Bravos and Deltas.
Part of the habitual base pattern of behaviour of an alpha is to attract then to encourage and distribute / direct / employ / provide. What should the alpha do beeing the first point of contact for nearly every women comming into the group and seeking appreciation more or less persistently from him? He might even resort to encouraging and appreciating in more intemate ways, just to get some persistant case of his schedule. Beeing in the alpha role can be very tricky and demanding.
I was just reading your post on the invisible man and I wondered about this thing where an invisible guy has an almost fatal attraction kind of event. Here you are posting about it. It makes total sense now. I've seen it several times that I recall. Here are a few illustrations. In college this woman at a party glommed onto one of the guys and within a week was calling the shots and soon was building a nest. She wasn't much, he could have done better with a little effort. It wasn't clear if this was what he wanted or if he was just resigned to it. Another fellow was much much better looking than his wife who also was controlling, he didn't seem to mind until she had an affair and left him. That was a shock because of how possessive and obsessive she had been over him and also because she was,.. well you had to wonder how on earth she landed the first guy, let alone the second. I also think something happens to some women after they give birth to their first, if it's a daughter. Have seen that pattern. The last one that stands out was with this tall, awkward fellow. A real "boy scout". Glasses, always dressed in brown. Very capable. A young lady started work and laser locked on him. In a month she'd re-done his entire wardrobe, much to her credit and his benefit, and his grooming. The engagement was announced a short time later. One of the senior managers commented to me that he didn't even know this fellow knew what girls were. Had he done any of that himself, he would have been more credible to management and drawn the attention of plenty of women. It was apparent that the combination of his dress and the attention of one woman made him suddenly visible to others.
I had a female friend in college who was extremely smart, about +4 sigmas, but maybe 40th or so percentile in looks (she was very thin though, which'd put her at around the 60th percentile today just because she wasn't overweight). She had a regular pattern. She'd find a new boyfriend who'd never had a girlfriend before, keep him for about 3 months or so, do substantial remediation work on them, and then a more attractive woman would steal him. I recall at least 3 cycles of this. A man typically becomes significantly more attractive to women after he gets his first girlfriend, it's like the opposite of automobiles.
Yes, that is certainly a thing. Both the risk with the fixer upper and the adding value in the eyes of other women by any woman demonstrating interest alone.
A lot of doors opened for the fixer upper. Prior to the makeover, he was a career limited, awkward brown blur. The sort you would never take on a sales dog and pony and might hide during a client walk through. You can't learn the business, bond with the boss and have upward mobility that way. After the make over, there was a moment of many doors opening, provided he could man up and be confident in other areas. So much is left on the table by men that won't take simple self improvement steps.
That's how my grandparents suggested that people marry. Marry someone who covers your significant areas of weakness. I didn't follow that rule myself, but I think it's good counsel for most people. Back when I was in grad school, there was a support group called WOE (Wives of Engineers). Lots of them were doing what you describe and networking for their husbands who weren't as good at that sort of thing as them. Your story has a happier ending than my friend's though, sounds like she got to keep all the benefit of her 'home improvement' job on her boyfriend.
This dude is barely giving advice. He's just doing an intellectual exercise about a group of people he loathes. Not saying the advice is bad, but if you're a delta who wants a wife, a gaggle of match-making church grannies in real life does more good for your kind in a week than this guy's advice column has ever done. Groveling to this guy's indignant replies is pathetic. Read what he has to say, take what you can from it, then disregard the frustrated nerd and his emotionally invested audience. Don't take people who hate you seriously.
Horse hockey.
Good one.
Dating lessons from a Delta,
1) You don't have to impress her with your wit. You don't even have to know what to say. The more you can get her to talk about herself, the more she will like you. The nice thing is you can develop this skill, of getting people to talk about themselves, with anyone.
2) If she somehow finds a reason to mention that she doesn't currently have a boyfriend, that means she's interested in you. She probably won't come out and say it, but it will be something like "if I had a boyfriend, I would like for him to know/do this or that". This happened twice to me and wasn't till much later I figured it out.
3) Monkey-branching is a real thing. Just because she has a boyfriend doesn't mean she's not interested in you. Also, once I found myself a month in to dating a girl and then learned that her ex had never been convinced that she seriously wanted him to stop pursuing her. I ended it, not knowing that girls can appear wishy-washy about this kind of thing.
4) There is no reason to be awkward around a friend-girl that you asked out and she turned you down. You have to develop the mindset that she's not a big deal to you. "you're not interested? Great. We can still be friends but I'm moving on."
Mindset Mindset Mindset. This is the great revelation that I got from reading Roissy, Heartiste and the pick-up artists.
I’ve noticed a lot of bravos wind up with women that have a few significant “+”s and a few significant “-“s
She’s 8 years younger than him and very submissive BUT kind of plain looking
She’s smokin hot BUT she’s 4 years older and had a kid before meeting him
That kind of thing.
Tradgirl seemed to handle that really well. Women can be quite butthurt by rejection, even when it’s the oblivious “Wait…she was flirting with me?!” variety.
“Ugh, he’s probably gay.”
I’m at a loss for words at Vox’s wisdom here. There’s only one word that can really describe my impressed astonishment here: Damn.
One word. “Hey.” It’s that freaking simple. I’ve been overthinking it my whole life, worrying about introductions, clever lines, and finding stuff to say. No more of that anymore. A simple “Hey” is all that’s needed. Any more is simply a foolish waste of time.
Of course, this will speed up the rejection process that I do admittedly dislike. But strangely enough, I look forward to the rejections because they will desensitize me to the demands of women and reshape my own anxious ego into one that cares less about itself and more about others.
Think of it like an NFL game. Old school coaches always kicked the field goal in the Red Zone to put off the moment of truth. But analytics showed that there is a higher win percentage if you go for the TD on fourth-and-goal.
Or, in business terms, fail faster.
2014-15 NFC Championship is a great example of this analogy. Mike McCarthy electing field goals on 4th and 1, twice in the first quarter!
Have you read Out of the Darkness?
All so very true; excellent advise, would have been great 30 years ago.
Was so afraid of rejection and embarassment, that I did not make a move, when cute girl decided to get into my bed with me, after one of our parties. I did not dare touch her; maybe sie just wanted to sleep?
Next morning she said she never met anyone as shy as me 🤣
Well that made things more clear for me, but I had already lost any respect...
Acting on sometimes fairly obvious ioi's has been a huge challenge.
Though I learned, slowly building a little bit more confidence.
Don't be me, listen to Vox, have more fun
Question regarding SSH as a whole:
You've made it clear that these categories are not really moral, but observations of patterns of behavior. Thus, morally, there are good and wicked alphas, good and wicked bravos and deltas and sigmas.
Is there such a thing as a good gamma? Is gamma a special case in that regard, that the category *does* have moral weight?
I apologize if I'm asking you to explain something you've already covered.
Yes, I believe so. Their moral failings are no worse than the others, even if we're more tolerant of fornication than dishonesty.
C S Lewis and Augustine have both been labeled gamma males.
Labeled "gamma" by whom?
Paul was also a gamma. It's clear that many of the failings of gammas can be turned into positive traits that allow them to ascend into greatness; it's just that the greatness of a gamma is different from the greatness of an alpha.
Every one of the men mentioned was a man of letters.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. Paul only talked about himself in grandiose terms when his authority as an Apostle was challenged, usually by Judaizers who were trying to get Gentile Christians to follow the Torah. He always preceded those statements by expressing regret and having to make them.
I find the sum of traits to be more Sigma. Yes, he triggered dislike, but he consistently performed in high conflict environments and asserted his authority aggressively.
The choice of churches to send him as a missionary to evangelize and plant churches reflects confidence in him to win people.
Would you pick a Gamma to represent your group on an important job? Does choosing leadership for newly planted churches and giving pastoral guidance sound Gamma?
Paul was definitely not a sigma.
To your empty argument I will point out that he suffered physical beating for the Gospel, planting churches and writing many pastoral epistles that are canonized in the Bible we study even now.
Efficacy in conflict is more Sigma than Gamma.
"Maybe it’s folly to try to fit someone as unique as Paul into the SSH?"
The SSH is for categorizing all men based on objective observable behavior. No man is too much of a snowflake to be categorized.
Someone who is socially successful and breaks categories sounds like a Sigma. Men who are in the hierarchy develop into easily recognizable types.
Gammas Always Lie, Project, Double Down. Which of those attributes can we say Paul exhibited? Did he Double Down on the Road to Damascus? No, he immediately yielded to Jesus and submitted himself to his new mission. Then he spent the rest of his life executing that mission with singular focus.
Does Paul act the Secret King? His previous persecution of Christians was in line with the goals of the Jewish leadership and shows an ambitious young man looking to earn glory through zealous competence.
Paul's refused to shun Christian Gentiles when everyone else was doing it. Then he directly confronts the Apostle Peter and calls him out publicly for his unprincipled behavior. That is high status behavior.
Paul is a man of action and his life story does not look like a low status man who wishes he could be greater.
Not every Apostle was a leader type. Most were probably Deltas. But the known Gamma is Judas.
Most people who have the tendency to be a gamma -- midwit or above, knowledge experts, socially inept -- consider themselves to be none of the above. Their delusional self worth makes them align with evil.
Other people with the same tendencies learn to tell the truth, shut up, do the job and have grace. They choose to align with good.
Functional societies reward good behaviour, and have few gammas and none in power. This is not a functional society.
Agreed. The one I am most closely acquainted with is not a bad person, or at least no worse than anyone else I know. He's a great father to his kids and often tries to mentor the younger men in the family, sometimes even with good results. It's just that he's often insufferable, and incapable of admitting when he's wrong.
Evil comes in many flavors, and not all reek of malice.
Pride and sloth are as evil as wrath and envy.
That’s a lovely AI portrait.
I agree. Usually the images VD uses leave me cold or unsettled - I think maybe they're just *slightly* uncanny valley and disquiet me at a subconscious level. But this one was oddly charming and made me smile. The problem with it, though, is that anyone who has experience with tortoises as pets know exactly what's coming in the next panel. That reptile is going to stomp on that lovely girl in slow motion and eat all those flowers in the messiest and most inelegant way imaginable.
This makes me think of a lot of false beliefs I had that did not stand the test of time. I grew up with a father that saw his mother abused and overcompensated by putting women on a pedestal they didn't deserve because of it. I wound up with more female friends than male, didn't observe how my male friends interacted with girls, and only heard the complaints from my female friend circle... which when I think about it is probably as bias and unreliable as it sounds... and so I took a "don't bother them" approach. I did not want to be labeled anything my dad saw as his abusive father or a manipulator, playboy, the "bad" guy.
It took years in the post-military to finally rid myself of that knowledge and chase down and aggressively pursue my wife. I noticed the glances, fought the indecision and weak dismissals to finally get her to go out with me and was very forward with showing myself as liking her. We got married in a year.
Hilariously enough, your paragraph about helping other females you are not interested in makes me laugh. I think it might be good to note that Delta behavior can frustrate women you have relationships with because you are too stupid to realize you are having "female friends" and engaging in behavior that is reserved only for someone you care for romantically.
A lot of stupid decisions and arguments with the wife are starting to make sense now...
Is there an anti-delta type like sigma is anti-alpha? I am considering how younger men are rejecting the work paradigm.
The Dark Herald has coined the term Echo Male to describe young men who could/should be Deltas who are tuned out of the hierarchy and system without hope of progression or improvement.
It's important to note that these young men have the natures of Deltas. Though conditioned into an Omega-like existence, those natures still strive to express themselves.
That's Omega, the ones Peterson is after.
No. Sigma is not anti-alpha.
My first boyfriend's ex told him to ask me out, which he did some weeks later. We had been hanging out for MONTHS. The no-initiative thing is very bothersome, I wish I would have known this then.
One of my close friends is a low delta with some gamma strains and I've talked about his woman troubles here before. The background is that in this friend group there are three of us. Two of us are alpha-types (both married) and he's currently adrift. He struggles with women and how to conduct himself with them because he has very low self-esteem. He's in his mid-50s, short, and stocky. What he has going for him is the gift of gab, talented musician, lots of worldly experience and an excellent job. He dresses well and conducts himself well. Honestly, he's a cool guy. Otherwise, I wouldn't be friends with him. He does not pick up on female cues just like you illustrated in this post. The three of us were together at a large social gathering for a group we all belong to. The three of were hanging around talking when a woman who was a new member introduced herself to us. We talked to her for a while and she was obviously interested. Since two of us are married we just made the usual small talk and thought our friend might engage with her, but he didn't. Later that evening we were talking about her and the interest she showed. Our low status friend was incredulous about her interest. He asked us 'how could you tell?' We laughed at him and asked 'how could you NOT tell?' So, goes the SSH.
The latest with him happened over the last 10 days. First some background: There is a woman that he had previously dated that he was still pining away after. He would go on and on to us about her to the point that we basically sat him down and gave him the 'talk' about getting her back. He followed our advice and he got her back. This was about 6 months ago. Well, last weekend she dumped again and gave him some lame ass excuse about why. She's also retarded, but that's irrelevant. Now, she wants to keep him in her orbit because he's useful and will do things for her. Me and the other guy tried very hard to bring him around to a more useful attitude about this, but to no avail. Vox, maybe I'll send you some screenshots of the texts we got back from him rationalizing his weak position. The adherence to the behavior patterns outlined in the SSH is astounding.
The next thing that happened was him sending us a screenshot of a message and reply he had with a woman on a dating app where he opens with a joke about his short stature to which she responds like one would expect. As you can see, this man is a work in progress for us.
Edit: I decided to remove some of the specific exchanges shared by my friend with us. I want to illustrate a point, but I don't want to publicly humiliate him.
I very much do not need screenshots of Deltas or Gammas justifying their positions. I literally live my life to avoid that sort of thing.
Men are not rational creatures. He's got his reasons for clinging to his suboptimal behavior. They don't have to make sense to you.
This is absolutely a skillset that *can* be conditioned. I run a hard-close sales team, we meet hundreds of folks every month and if we get a yes one 1 out of 10 times we are doing "good"
Anyone from this industry can naturally introduce themselves and carry a conversation with anyone, at anytime, regardless of them being naturally Introverted or Extroverted
Love your posts brother! I still haven't connected to the whole "Bravos pair with Alpha hand-me-downs..." but I wouldn't have seen that in any small circle I've been in.
I think a small but frequent example for this pattern would be the reaction to an invitation of a mixed travel group. The women check at first how capable the alpha leader would turn out to be. The men check how attractive the women are that the alpha is able to attract before committing to the trip. But on the trip the alpha has not time for every women all the time so they are encouraged to check out the Bravos and Deltas.
Part of the habitual base pattern of behaviour of an alpha is to attract then to encourage and distribute / direct / employ / provide. What should the alpha do beeing the first point of contact for nearly every women comming into the group and seeking appreciation more or less persistently from him? He might even resort to encouraging and appreciating in more intemate ways, just to get some persistant case of his schedule. Beeing in the alpha role can be very tricky and demanding.
I was just reading your post on the invisible man and I wondered about this thing where an invisible guy has an almost fatal attraction kind of event. Here you are posting about it. It makes total sense now. I've seen it several times that I recall. Here are a few illustrations. In college this woman at a party glommed onto one of the guys and within a week was calling the shots and soon was building a nest. She wasn't much, he could have done better with a little effort. It wasn't clear if this was what he wanted or if he was just resigned to it. Another fellow was much much better looking than his wife who also was controlling, he didn't seem to mind until she had an affair and left him. That was a shock because of how possessive and obsessive she had been over him and also because she was,.. well you had to wonder how on earth she landed the first guy, let alone the second. I also think something happens to some women after they give birth to their first, if it's a daughter. Have seen that pattern. The last one that stands out was with this tall, awkward fellow. A real "boy scout". Glasses, always dressed in brown. Very capable. A young lady started work and laser locked on him. In a month she'd re-done his entire wardrobe, much to her credit and his benefit, and his grooming. The engagement was announced a short time later. One of the senior managers commented to me that he didn't even know this fellow knew what girls were. Had he done any of that himself, he would have been more credible to management and drawn the attention of plenty of women. It was apparent that the combination of his dress and the attention of one woman made him suddenly visible to others.
I had a female friend in college who was extremely smart, about +4 sigmas, but maybe 40th or so percentile in looks (she was very thin though, which'd put her at around the 60th percentile today just because she wasn't overweight). She had a regular pattern. She'd find a new boyfriend who'd never had a girlfriend before, keep him for about 3 months or so, do substantial remediation work on them, and then a more attractive woman would steal him. I recall at least 3 cycles of this. A man typically becomes significantly more attractive to women after he gets his first girlfriend, it's like the opposite of automobiles.
Yes, that is certainly a thing. Both the risk with the fixer upper and the adding value in the eyes of other women by any woman demonstrating interest alone.
A lot of doors opened for the fixer upper. Prior to the makeover, he was a career limited, awkward brown blur. The sort you would never take on a sales dog and pony and might hide during a client walk through. You can't learn the business, bond with the boss and have upward mobility that way. After the make over, there was a moment of many doors opening, provided he could man up and be confident in other areas. So much is left on the table by men that won't take simple self improvement steps.
That's how my grandparents suggested that people marry. Marry someone who covers your significant areas of weakness. I didn't follow that rule myself, but I think it's good counsel for most people. Back when I was in grad school, there was a support group called WOE (Wives of Engineers). Lots of them were doing what you describe and networking for their husbands who weren't as good at that sort of thing as them. Your story has a happier ending than my friend's though, sounds like she got to keep all the benefit of her 'home improvement' job on her boyfriend.