The decision of the women may be higher than even the relevant helierarchy, if there are women there. It is very much like they decide the power wielder.
People often confuse SSH hierarchy and sexual market value(SMV) because often somebody's SMV parrallels their SSH level. For the most part when men ask about their SSH ranking they really mean their SMV. Generally speaking a man's SSH level is pretty much established sometime in childhood and rarely changes.
Most men are more interested in their SMV because that determines whether or not they can get a date and establishes the attractiveness level of the women they can date. Men can improve their SMV with effort by doing things like getting into shape, improving how they dress, learning to communicate properly with women and learning general social savvy. The problem with this is when most average men hear what they have to do to date attractive women is they don't put in the effort. They go to the gym a couple of times a week for a month or 2, get a couple of better outfits, watch a few videos on how to talk to girls and then go and talk to the girls who've they've been pining for in their social circle. When it goes as disasterously as you'd expect the guys say that it's all a rigged game or something.
The truth is that it takes years to build up good social market value, usually starting in childhood. Let me use my 5 year old son as an example. When I talk about my son I'm not talking about his SSH rank but his SMV. He likes to do the monkey bars which is getting ready to do pullups. He likes to run with his friends which is cardio. We've got him in twice a month ice hockey lessons and he does a weekly ice skating lesson. He likes hockey. This is him preparing to play sports where he will probably be one of the best players on the local ice hockey club and maybe he will get to occassionally play with the elite kids when they need an extra player.
My wife is good socially. She makes sure that he has lots of play dates with friends. He does a good job of playing with the kids his age. This is my son learning general sociall savvy. He loves his big sister and she loves him. He likes to hang out with her when she has play dates. This is him learning to be around girls and how to interact with them.
By the time that my son is a teenager and his hormones kick in, he will have years of preparation and experience getting his SMV up. He will be strong, athletic and have good social savvy. By the time that he's 16 there will be girls in the 14-17 age range who think that he's pretty awesome.
When my son is that age there will be evious lower status men who will look at him like he's some natural. However they won't see the years of effort that my son put in as a child to become the kind of young man who girls want to be with. My son won't even notice his childhood SMV development because to him it was all playing and having fun.
My son's case is a good example of how men can raise their SMV but it takes years and is best done in childhood. Men whose parents didn't develop them when they were young have years of learning to exercise, find cool activities to do, learning social savvy, etc. Today at least the tools are out there for men to learn but most won't do it.
We see that generally speaking most "red pilled" content for men about women devolves into some sad variation of women suck and you shouldn't even bother trying. This is usually what happens when low status to average men who aren't socially savvy put in a half hearted effort to raise their SMV.
Yes, men can raise their SMV but it rarely happens so don't go expecting the low status men around you to get their act together.
8 is generous. She looks to be in her late 30s, maybe she's already 40. You can't be a 10 when you're past your prime by over a decade. That woman at 23 is a whole different ball game.
I don't know her name. But she doesn't look like she's in her 20s. If she is, then she really did enjoy her party years, which clearly makes the estimate of an 8 generous.
Theoretically, it seems most possible for Deltas to be able to rise in low Bravo, given that Deltas do not have Gamma resentment holding them back. I wonder if it is possible for a high Delta, that is actively meta programming himself, who is repeatedly put in situational Bravo roles to successfully ingrain within himself enough change, like new instincts if even possible, repeatedly to fully rise into a low Bravo status. The repeated placing in situational Bravo roles might even act like a sort of social proofing depending on who he hangs out with. However, it also would be very unlikely for a Delta to overcome his inherent Delta narcissism or even develop his projected pseudo-sympathy to the point that it would be readily mistaken for the kind of empathy that Bravos often have. It would also be difficult to change enough to effectively fool even the female sixth sense for status.
It's better to think in terms of "similar status," I think. There's a status overlap between lower Bravos and higher Deltas, between lower Deltas and higher Gammas, etc.
Status is organic and people respond to it at an almost subconscious level. I’ve witnessed this kind of behavior in person more than once. It must impress low status men and other assorted retards, but it doesn’t fool everyone. It’s transparent as glass and will get you on permanent ignore. It’s more than just being an idiot. You’re signaling that everything about you is suspect. You can’t be trusted.
For the posers, you can dress up like a thoroughbred, but you’ll always be jackass.
In the words of Rollo: Clout is a fiat currency. Your favourite influencer is cashing in on sheep that needs direction. The resentment that follows will be to their detriment.
In other contexts, women would be flattered to be quoted twelve years younger. Low status fosters resentment at every level, compliments harbour no exception.
My coworker is a major alpha and makes Dan Bilzerian and his $96 million trust fund look retarded.
It usually takes 7 days to ascend Mt. Denali, my coworker did a Double Ascent in 3 days.
He's a Mountain Guide and Trains our Mountain Division in ski training, mountaineering, etc. A sort of celebrity.
By the sound of it you'd think he would be a scrawny ultra-endurance type, nope. The guy played defensive end in college and looks like a damn football player.
He is very attractive and the women notice him, but what's really telling is how the men treat him. Especially the other high status men. I brought an alpha date, a former pro fighter and sort of local celebrity to a work event with over 100 people, and before I got a chance to introduce them, my date walked up to my coworker and shook his hand. My coworker wasn't even wearing anything special or doing anything that made you think he was in charge of anything, he was just standing back watching. My date just knew.
I think a man can delude himself when he's got a bunch of low status men and women following him around. It's very different when you see high status men flock to one guy.
I've met rich, successful Deltas. They're hard working men who've leaned into the talents God gave them, and usually have attractive wives.
I've also met very handsome, fit Deltas, who've pulled incredibly attractive women.
And yet, their relationships always fall into one of two categories:
1) wife is a benevolent dictator who is the undisputed matriarch of the family. This is the happy, and more rare of the two.
2) wife is a shrew who is the undisputed matriarch of the family. I've seen this more time than I can count.
None of these men, regardless of how much money they make, how much authority, or decision making power they hold in a multinational corporation, or how many women throw themselves at them, run their own households in any but the least relevant details.
Although theoretically possible to change one's SSH behavioral patterns, I sincerely doubt that even 1% of men have the intelligence, will power, and sheer strength of character to accomplish this.
The only way in which one can "change" is by suffering some sort of crippling physical, or psychological trauma that collapses one's rank to Omega.
The only way for Deltas to even have a chance of ruling their own households is the backing of an Alpha and the force of Law behind him. His own SSH is insufficient for the task.
Very interesting to considered the possibility of going down in rank. Is this easier than going up? Can an Alpha fail at life and become a Bravo? Or a Delta get delt a bad hand and become a full fledge Gamma? If so would it be irreversible?
A Bravo can play Alpha to a group of Deltas (or lower)
An Alpha, Bravo, or even Sigma can play Delta in a group hierarchy, at least for a while.
The key here is that those be temporary, situational roles.
If you take a Bravo and promote him to CEO, you're just not going to get the same results as when an Alpha ran the company. Heaven forbid you place a Delta in the role.
We can all fall to Omega, under the right (wrong) circumstances. Anyone can fall into depression, gain weight, and give up on life, at which point you're functionally Omega.
The whole point of the (near) immutability of the SSH is that you can't turn a Delta into a Gamma, Alpha, or anything else.
I have become a much much higher Delta than I used to be. I am always learning to imitate the Sigmas, Alphas, and Bravos that I admire. I lift weights, I practice martial arts, and I intentionally look men in the eye when I talk to them. I dress like Daniel Craig's James Bond. I sometimes talk like Donald Trump on dates (this is one of the great espresso martinis, really fantastic, many people are saying it's the greatest...)
But I'm still a Delta. I think (as Vox once said a long time ago) that that's why Delta is such an appropriate symbol for us. We can change the most.
For what it's worth, Dan never got married. That photo is from a poker friend's wedding a few years back, the girl was a bridesmaid.
Vox, you once said that most high status men eventually tired of the hedonistic lifestyle and the chase becomes boring - have you observed a general timeline for how long it takes most men to get there?
“Dung beetle” 😂😂😂
The decision of the women may be higher than even the relevant helierarchy, if there are women there. It is very much like they decide the power wielder.
People often confuse SSH hierarchy and sexual market value(SMV) because often somebody's SMV parrallels their SSH level. For the most part when men ask about their SSH ranking they really mean their SMV. Generally speaking a man's SSH level is pretty much established sometime in childhood and rarely changes.
Most men are more interested in their SMV because that determines whether or not they can get a date and establishes the attractiveness level of the women they can date. Men can improve their SMV with effort by doing things like getting into shape, improving how they dress, learning to communicate properly with women and learning general social savvy. The problem with this is when most average men hear what they have to do to date attractive women is they don't put in the effort. They go to the gym a couple of times a week for a month or 2, get a couple of better outfits, watch a few videos on how to talk to girls and then go and talk to the girls who've they've been pining for in their social circle. When it goes as disasterously as you'd expect the guys say that it's all a rigged game or something.
The truth is that it takes years to build up good social market value, usually starting in childhood. Let me use my 5 year old son as an example. When I talk about my son I'm not talking about his SSH rank but his SMV. He likes to do the monkey bars which is getting ready to do pullups. He likes to run with his friends which is cardio. We've got him in twice a month ice hockey lessons and he does a weekly ice skating lesson. He likes hockey. This is him preparing to play sports where he will probably be one of the best players on the local ice hockey club and maybe he will get to occassionally play with the elite kids when they need an extra player.
My wife is good socially. She makes sure that he has lots of play dates with friends. He does a good job of playing with the kids his age. This is my son learning general sociall savvy. He loves his big sister and she loves him. He likes to hang out with her when she has play dates. This is him learning to be around girls and how to interact with them.
By the time that my son is a teenager and his hormones kick in, he will have years of preparation and experience getting his SMV up. He will be strong, athletic and have good social savvy. By the time that he's 16 there will be girls in the 14-17 age range who think that he's pretty awesome.
When my son is that age there will be evious lower status men who will look at him like he's some natural. However they won't see the years of effort that my son put in as a child to become the kind of young man who girls want to be with. My son won't even notice his childhood SMV development because to him it was all playing and having fun.
My son's case is a good example of how men can raise their SMV but it takes years and is best done in childhood. Men whose parents didn't develop them when they were young have years of learning to exercise, find cool activities to do, learning social savvy, etc. Today at least the tools are out there for men to learn but most won't do it.
We see that generally speaking most "red pilled" content for men about women devolves into some sad variation of women suck and you shouldn't even bother trying. This is usually what happens when low status to average men who aren't socially savvy put in a half hearted effort to raise their SMV.
Yes, men can raise their SMV but it rarely happens so don't go expecting the low status men around you to get their act together.
What kind of 8 woman wears a green wedding dress?
She was a bridesmaid in someone else's wedding, and not dating Bilzerian.
Vox implies he landed her, but never actually states he married her. Maybe there is more to the story.
It turns out I'm not up on Bilzerian's actual marital status.
Most the internet is fake.
Especially if the world likes it
If Dan Bilzerians woman is an 8 then i have never seen >8.5
8 is generous. She looks to be in her late 30s, maybe she's already 40. You can't be a 10 when you're past your prime by over a decade. That woman at 23 is a whole different ball game.
40? Are we talking about Hailey Grice? I think she's 25. This age fetishising is what the prostitute in the article was laughing at.
I don't know her name. But she doesn't look like she's in her 20s. If she is, then she really did enjoy her party years, which clearly makes the estimate of an 8 generous.
Just looked her up. Born in 1998. Oh dear... she really didn't age well. She looks ten years older in this picture.
Go to a city center that houses a few expensive clothing stores. That'll calibrate your scale.
City centres here are full of Asians. For calibration purposes what would you rate Margot Robbie?
Theoretically, it seems most possible for Deltas to be able to rise in low Bravo, given that Deltas do not have Gamma resentment holding them back. I wonder if it is possible for a high Delta, that is actively meta programming himself, who is repeatedly put in situational Bravo roles to successfully ingrain within himself enough change, like new instincts if even possible, repeatedly to fully rise into a low Bravo status. The repeated placing in situational Bravo roles might even act like a sort of social proofing depending on who he hangs out with. However, it also would be very unlikely for a Delta to overcome his inherent Delta narcissism or even develop his projected pseudo-sympathy to the point that it would be readily mistaken for the kind of empathy that Bravos often have. It would also be difficult to change enough to effectively fool even the female sixth sense for status.
It's better to think in terms of "similar status," I think. There's a status overlap between lower Bravos and higher Deltas, between lower Deltas and higher Gammas, etc.
Why does a low delta act like a gamma?
Different species of patterns.
Status is organic and people respond to it at an almost subconscious level. I’ve witnessed this kind of behavior in person more than once. It must impress low status men and other assorted retards, but it doesn’t fool everyone. It’s transparent as glass and will get you on permanent ignore. It’s more than just being an idiot. You’re signaling that everything about you is suspect. You can’t be trusted.
For the posers, you can dress up like a thoroughbred, but you’ll always be jackass.
In the words of Rollo: Clout is a fiat currency. Your favourite influencer is cashing in on sheep that needs direction. The resentment that follows will be to their detriment.
In other contexts, women would be flattered to be quoted twelve years younger. Low status fosters resentment at every level, compliments harbour no exception.
Compliments are like throwing rose petals to walk on. Theyre used to it and dont care if they don't like you already.
"Thanks"
My coworker is a major alpha and makes Dan Bilzerian and his $96 million trust fund look retarded.
It usually takes 7 days to ascend Mt. Denali, my coworker did a Double Ascent in 3 days.
He's a Mountain Guide and Trains our Mountain Division in ski training, mountaineering, etc. A sort of celebrity.
By the sound of it you'd think he would be a scrawny ultra-endurance type, nope. The guy played defensive end in college and looks like a damn football player.
He is very attractive and the women notice him, but what's really telling is how the men treat him. Especially the other high status men. I brought an alpha date, a former pro fighter and sort of local celebrity to a work event with over 100 people, and before I got a chance to introduce them, my date walked up to my coworker and shook his hand. My coworker wasn't even wearing anything special or doing anything that made you think he was in charge of anything, he was just standing back watching. My date just knew.
I think a man can delude himself when he's got a bunch of low status men and women following him around. It's very different when you see high status men flock to one guy.
From that last pic it looks like someone out kicked their coverage.
he staged the wedding pic as a joke. the next day he was back on the boat
Parallel green lines on the wedding picture - Big Oof. (she's mildly leaning away)
Don't win games you can't afford to.
EDIT: Not his wedding picture, reportedly. But illustrates Vox's point on expected end results.
I've met rich, successful Deltas. They're hard working men who've leaned into the talents God gave them, and usually have attractive wives.
I've also met very handsome, fit Deltas, who've pulled incredibly attractive women.
And yet, their relationships always fall into one of two categories:
1) wife is a benevolent dictator who is the undisputed matriarch of the family. This is the happy, and more rare of the two.
2) wife is a shrew who is the undisputed matriarch of the family. I've seen this more time than I can count.
None of these men, regardless of how much money they make, how much authority, or decision making power they hold in a multinational corporation, or how many women throw themselves at them, run their own households in any but the least relevant details.
Although theoretically possible to change one's SSH behavioral patterns, I sincerely doubt that even 1% of men have the intelligence, will power, and sheer strength of character to accomplish this.
The only way in which one can "change" is by suffering some sort of crippling physical, or psychological trauma that collapses one's rank to Omega.
The only way for Deltas to even have a chance of ruling their own households is the backing of an Alpha and the force of Law behind him. His own SSH is insufficient for the task.
Very interesting to considered the possibility of going down in rank. Is this easier than going up? Can an Alpha fail at life and become a Bravo? Or a Delta get delt a bad hand and become a full fledge Gamma? If so would it be irreversible?
A Sigma can play Alpha when it suits him.
An Alpha can play Bravo to a higher status Alpha.
A Bravo can play Alpha to a group of Deltas (or lower)
An Alpha, Bravo, or even Sigma can play Delta in a group hierarchy, at least for a while.
The key here is that those be temporary, situational roles.
If you take a Bravo and promote him to CEO, you're just not going to get the same results as when an Alpha ran the company. Heaven forbid you place a Delta in the role.
We can all fall to Omega, under the right (wrong) circumstances. Anyone can fall into depression, gain weight, and give up on life, at which point you're functionally Omega.
The whole point of the (near) immutability of the SSH is that you can't turn a Delta into a Gamma, Alpha, or anything else.
"you can't turn a Delta into a Gamma"
Not sure about that one. I think one can drop rank on a long-term basis.
Drugs. And self-deception is a helluva drug.
I have become a much much higher Delta than I used to be. I am always learning to imitate the Sigmas, Alphas, and Bravos that I admire. I lift weights, I practice martial arts, and I intentionally look men in the eye when I talk to them. I dress like Daniel Craig's James Bond. I sometimes talk like Donald Trump on dates (this is one of the great espresso martinis, really fantastic, many people are saying it's the greatest...)
But I'm still a Delta. I think (as Vox once said a long time ago) that that's why Delta is such an appropriate symbol for us. We can change the most.
For what it's worth, Dan never got married. That photo is from a poker friend's wedding a few years back, the girl was a bridesmaid.
Vox, you once said that most high status men eventually tired of the hedonistic lifestyle and the chase becomes boring - have you observed a general timeline for how long it takes most men to get there?