I will venture to guess that one of the five compliments you received was soccer related? Seeing as that has become a passion of yours that you’ve continued into middle age (which many fail to do adequately).
Why is it kindness and not flattery to compliment a woman on her looks when she is down in the dumps for an unrelated reason? I absolutely hate it when people - especially (because it usually only comes from clueless men) say something about your looks when you are upset, annoyed or whatever about something else. It comes across as patronising, like they are trying to shut down the conversation, and either not listening, don't understand, or simply treating you like a child who can be made to feel better with "here, candy". Definitely flattery.
I try to make others feel better about their days and ask them about their hobbies.
I work in IT, and I HATE when people denigrate their intelligence when they mean their competence. Computers are absurdly "sophisticated" (needlessly complicated) and in a converged company it's even worse. It's not the user's fault it's so opaque.
That's when I resort to flattery, because most people are not dumb.
The "nice shirt" life-changing moment is a real thing.
I was paid this compliment by a girl who I'd long thought was out of my league. But she only paid the compliment after I'd been dating an equally high-status woman from another social group entirely - one who taught me how to dress.
That compliment was all the assurance I needed that my ability to traverse the feminine caste system wasn't a fluke.
For a time, but I wouldn't recommend it. It turns out "married with children" is more my speed.
It was a helpful chapter in that I realized the women my purely carnal instincts drew me towards were almost never wife material. It was also invaluable in curbing a wandering eye in marriage later on, as I got a front-row seat to the insanity that accompanies abnormal attractiveness and became somewhat contemptuous of it as a result.
Getting the same general compliments from different women will go a long way in shoring up a man’s confidence. It’s like a peer review. Those you can have more faith in than one offs or suspected flattery-for-gain.
From a leadership perspective, gratuitous flattery or ass kissing from subordinates is a red flag and an effective way to lose trust. Especially, when it comes from men. It’s a form of groveling. It’s low status and suspect. Thinking back, every instance of that came from a low or mediocre performer.
When a woman compliments a man, is there a danger of him thinking she's coming on to him? Or do men recognize that sometimes a compliment is just a compliment, with no ulterior motive?
My default assumption has always been that a woman offering me a compliment not obviously associated with a recent action or situation held in common is trying to get me to do something for her like move furniture or borrow money. Distrust cuts both ways.
I’m with a circus boy on this one. In my experience, it’s not that difficult to tell the difference between a woman complimenting for the sake of complimenting and a woman trying to be manipulative through flattery—the latter may partly involve a compliment but is usually alloyed with something else, maybe in the immediate follow-up comment.
I suspect that's partly why women are less likely to compliment men, because we don't want to invite unwanted attention. And unfortunately when you spend too much time ignoring the urge to compliment, you stop noticing things to compliment.
That is unfortunately true, but it is also harmful to them when er don’t acknowledge when they have done something well that deserves praise and recognition.
After reading a previous post about how much a compliment affects men, I have been more generous. It is almost always praise for their work or a heartfelt “thank you” when they have assisted with something they didn’t need to. This helps cut down on most misperceptions about the compliment. It also makes their day. They light up.
Depends on the context, the compliment, and the man. Compliment a stranger's shirt at the store as you go past, and few men will think you're aiming for something more. Compliment his shirt in a more intimate setting, and the odds go up.
In all but the most superficial contexts, though, we'll suspect an ulterior motive. Many women use compliments to start a sales pitch or soften an upcoming request. Many use them to fish for reciprocation. In most cases, men are aware enough to judge the context and determine that the ulterior motive is not, in fact, flirtatious.
This is where most men will screw up. The concept of focusing on others instead of the self is foreign to the average Delta or Gamma. It can be learned, but the lower-status man will inevitably start observing himself again instead of keeping his focus on the other party.
And as for listening, that’s an even harder task for him. If the listener can manage to keep his attention span on the speaker at all, actually relating the words being said to the speaker’s situation without selfish intent is a challenge for most.
Recently the often repeated conversation regarding God Emperor and narcissism was overheard here again. Even a person fond of the God Emperor agreed that there is a narcissism problem. Some people appear to define narcissism as being bold and more Alpha than others.
Paying attention to others or being self-absorbed has nothing to do with narcissism according to this definition.
Either way, the Delta narcissism is a great impediment for his progression as well as his team if in management position. While being bold and Alpha is not, at least if you can play the part.
Why do you rely on an internet comment section to provide you definitions of words? Narcissism quite literally is defined as self-absorption. "Inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love," e.g. egocentrism. The God-Emperor's behavior, though informative, does not define language.
It's a false dichotomy to assume that a person can only focus on either themselves or others. That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. The high-status narcissist has the capacity to focus on others, but he usually does so in the context of focusing on himself. Lower-status narcissists can't do this and only focus on themselves.
Yes, I think narcissism manifests differently across the SSH ranks. A gamma absorbed with himself will see everything in the context of his movie that he's larping as a character in. A self-absorbed delta will see everything through the lens of his interests. A self-absorbed bravo will be obsessed over his standing with the alpha and the hierarchy, and a self-absorbed alpha will see everything revolving around his status as one. The last two necessarily demand more of an outward look than the first two. It's still the same thing though, just different forms of self-absiorbtion, because of the SSH rank.
The conversation regarding God Emperor and narcissism occurs frequently both in real life and on the internet. There is a lot of Clown World involved, but that is how many see it.
The discussions are generally retarded, especially when people with major Delta narcissism problem with zero leadership or communication skills start declaring how things should be done the proper way.
Ok, wait a minute. What were those five compliments and were they from randos or people you knew? How can I use this knowledge to improve the success and happiness of my sons? What were those compliments?
You may not be able to, being mom. The best compliments are unexpected, and moms who care about these things tend to be consistently supportive.
I'll always remember the cute girls who called me hot, for obvious reasons. I'll also remember the time my dad conveyed that he thought I was Alpha and was genuinely surprised that it wasn't the case - he never talked about such things, and he said it when such a compliment was least expected.
But don't let that dissuade you! We all need encouragement and building up.
In my final year at high school, a very good looking girl asked me to come to her house to help with her homework. Her mother answered the door and called to her daugher, "there's a handsome boy here to see you". That was the first and last time I heard anyone called me handsome, but it was certainly a boost.
I have a baby nephew. As soon as he understands English, I will be discreetly asking slightly older girls to give him random compliments. Future Alpha guaranteed, I hope.
I’ll never forget pushing my child in his stroller when two girls in their early 20s drove by and yelled at me “Hot Dad!” One of the best compliments I got from a stranger, and the perfect example of why the Golden Rule isn’t sufficient. If I drove by a woman and yelled at her Hot Mom, she’d likely consider it a cat call and be offended.
{sigh} Cause it likely WOULD be a cat call. I believe that men love catcalls directed toward them for the reason Vox wrote above... Usually, when a man is catcalling a woman, it not an expression of anything great about her except that, however fleetingly, he wants to/would have sex with her. For a woman, from an unknown man, that is NEITHER a compliment nor a kindness!
This ties in with Vox's description of the purpose: if he is the *agent* speaking out of his desire for something from the *object*, yet thinking it's 'good' or kind for the object towards whom his cupidity is directed.... eh. Not so much. I have on occasion said to a man passing by, "Oh! You smell fantastic!" (I'm a huge fan of the original Polo fragrance! Kinda lose my decorum, just about want to follow him around...)
Mostly, my "apology to men for feminism" is making a point of looking directly in his eyes, smiling, and saying "oh I LOVE Southern gentleman!" when he unconsciously opens a door for me... I am honestly 'describing' him/his actions and praising HIM for having done them. (And to that one semi-sullen guy who responded with "I'm not Southern," I answered: "Well, you're still a gentleman.")
Haha, yeah, same experience, last week I was riding a bike toward two girls on a bench, one whispered to the other one "someone hot's coming!" and both stared. It wasn't much of a whisper, obviously. Definitely made my day.
And to the women, these unprompted and honest compliments are the ones we are talking about. I mean, say he has a nice shirt and all, but we don't really remember the ones about the shirt.
A shirt complement implies that she likes your sense of style. If you get a couple of complements about the same or similar shirts, it means your style choice is on point.
I don't know about you, but I absolutely remember those shirt complements and it has changed my overall clothing style.
Yep. It can also be a veiled compliment on the guy's overall attractiveness where she wants to compliment his appearance but not open the door for romantic development.
Both can be memorable, but the direct "someone hot's coming" is likely more impactful to most men.
When I was 14, the mom of one of my girlfriend’s friends told them that she couldn’t believe how pretty I was, just unnaturally attractive. This compliment still carries me 20 years later.
I will venture to guess that one of the five compliments you received was soccer related? Seeing as that has become a passion of yours that you’ve continued into middle age (which many fail to do adequately).
Why is it kindness and not flattery to compliment a woman on her looks when she is down in the dumps for an unrelated reason? I absolutely hate it when people - especially (because it usually only comes from clueless men) say something about your looks when you are upset, annoyed or whatever about something else. It comes across as patronising, like they are trying to shut down the conversation, and either not listening, don't understand, or simply treating you like a child who can be made to feel better with "here, candy". Definitely flattery.
Thanks for explaining this, Vox.
I try to make others feel better about their days and ask them about their hobbies.
I work in IT, and I HATE when people denigrate their intelligence when they mean their competence. Computers are absurdly "sophisticated" (needlessly complicated) and in a converged company it's even worse. It's not the user's fault it's so opaque.
That's when I resort to flattery, because most people are not dumb.
Another great post. Helping me understand people.
"Male preferences tend to be dictated by their SSH type."
Can... Can we get more on this?
I could hazard a guess, but am hardly an authority.
Alpha: Praise leadership and decisiveness?
Bravo: Praise loyalty? ('He couldn't do it without you, babe!')
Delta: Praise competence?
Gamma: Praise *unique* confidence?
The "nice shirt" life-changing moment is a real thing.
I was paid this compliment by a girl who I'd long thought was out of my league. But she only paid the compliment after I'd been dating an equally high-status woman from another social group entirely - one who taught me how to dress.
That compliment was all the assurance I needed that my ability to traverse the feminine caste system wasn't a fluke.
So, did you use that ability "to traverse the feminine caste system"? It sure sounds adventuristic.
For a time, but I wouldn't recommend it. It turns out "married with children" is more my speed.
It was a helpful chapter in that I realized the women my purely carnal instincts drew me towards were almost never wife material. It was also invaluable in curbing a wandering eye in marriage later on, as I got a front-row seat to the insanity that accompanies abnormal attractiveness and became somewhat contemptuous of it as a result.
Getting the same general compliments from different women will go a long way in shoring up a man’s confidence. It’s like a peer review. Those you can have more faith in than one offs or suspected flattery-for-gain.
From a leadership perspective, gratuitous flattery or ass kissing from subordinates is a red flag and an effective way to lose trust. Especially, when it comes from men. It’s a form of groveling. It’s low status and suspect. Thinking back, every instance of that came from a low or mediocre performer.
When a woman compliments a man, is there a danger of him thinking she's coming on to him? Or do men recognize that sometimes a compliment is just a compliment, with no ulterior motive?
My default assumption has always been that a woman offering me a compliment not obviously associated with a recent action or situation held in common is trying to get me to do something for her like move furniture or borrow money. Distrust cuts both ways.
I’m with a circus boy on this one. In my experience, it’s not that difficult to tell the difference between a woman complimenting for the sake of complimenting and a woman trying to be manipulative through flattery—the latter may partly involve a compliment but is usually alloyed with something else, maybe in the immediate follow-up comment.
This differs from my experience. Aside from the flirtatious ones, the compliments I receive from women almost never have an ulterior motive.
Stuff like help moving furniture, female friends just straight up ask.
This was also my first thought. There is a danger when there are too many compliments. Compliments invite unwanted touching or closeness.
I suspect that's partly why women are less likely to compliment men, because we don't want to invite unwanted attention. And unfortunately when you spend too much time ignoring the urge to compliment, you stop noticing things to compliment.
That is unfortunately true, but it is also harmful to them when er don’t acknowledge when they have done something well that deserves praise and recognition.
After reading a previous post about how much a compliment affects men, I have been more generous. It is almost always praise for their work or a heartfelt “thank you” when they have assisted with something they didn’t need to. This helps cut down on most misperceptions about the compliment. It also makes their day. They light up.
Depends on the context, the compliment, and the man. Compliment a stranger's shirt at the store as you go past, and few men will think you're aiming for something more. Compliment his shirt in a more intimate setting, and the odds go up.
In all but the most superficial contexts, though, we'll suspect an ulterior motive. Many women use compliments to start a sales pitch or soften an upcoming request. Many use them to fish for reciprocation. In most cases, men are aware enough to judge the context and determine that the ulterior motive is not, in fact, flirtatious.
It would depend on the individual man’s level of social skills
“First, observe and listen to the other person.”
This is where most men will screw up. The concept of focusing on others instead of the self is foreign to the average Delta or Gamma. It can be learned, but the lower-status man will inevitably start observing himself again instead of keeping his focus on the other party.
And as for listening, that’s an even harder task for him. If the listener can manage to keep his attention span on the speaker at all, actually relating the words being said to the speaker’s situation without selfish intent is a challenge for most.
The infamous Delta narcissism strikes.
Recently the often repeated conversation regarding God Emperor and narcissism was overheard here again. Even a person fond of the God Emperor agreed that there is a narcissism problem. Some people appear to define narcissism as being bold and more Alpha than others.
Paying attention to others or being self-absorbed has nothing to do with narcissism according to this definition.
Either way, the Delta narcissism is a great impediment for his progression as well as his team if in management position. While being bold and Alpha is not, at least if you can play the part.
Why do you rely on an internet comment section to provide you definitions of words? Narcissism quite literally is defined as self-absorption. "Inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love," e.g. egocentrism. The God-Emperor's behavior, though informative, does not define language.
It's a false dichotomy to assume that a person can only focus on either themselves or others. That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. The high-status narcissist has the capacity to focus on others, but he usually does so in the context of focusing on himself. Lower-status narcissists can't do this and only focus on themselves.
Yes, I think narcissism manifests differently across the SSH ranks. A gamma absorbed with himself will see everything in the context of his movie that he's larping as a character in. A self-absorbed delta will see everything through the lens of his interests. A self-absorbed bravo will be obsessed over his standing with the alpha and the hierarchy, and a self-absorbed alpha will see everything revolving around his status as one. The last two necessarily demand more of an outward look than the first two. It's still the same thing though, just different forms of self-absiorbtion, because of the SSH rank.
The conversation regarding God Emperor and narcissism occurs frequently both in real life and on the internet. There is a lot of Clown World involved, but that is how many see it.
The discussions are generally retarded, especially when people with major Delta narcissism problem with zero leadership or communication skills start declaring how things should be done the proper way.
Ok, wait a minute. What were those five compliments and were they from randos or people you knew? How can I use this knowledge to improve the success and happiness of my sons? What were those compliments?
Probably told him he was hung like a horse
Not your business and not applicable to a mother.
You may not be able to, being mom. The best compliments are unexpected, and moms who care about these things tend to be consistently supportive.
I'll always remember the cute girls who called me hot, for obvious reasons. I'll also remember the time my dad conveyed that he thought I was Alpha and was genuinely surprised that it wasn't the case - he never talked about such things, and he said it when such a compliment was least expected.
But don't let that dissuade you! We all need encouragement and building up.
In my final year at high school, a very good looking girl asked me to come to her house to help with her homework. Her mother answered the door and called to her daugher, "there's a handsome boy here to see you". That was the first and last time I heard anyone called me handsome, but it was certainly a boost.
I have a baby nephew. As soon as he understands English, I will be discreetly asking slightly older girls to give him random compliments. Future Alpha guaranteed, I hope.
Remind his parents to feed him plenty of red meat and keep him un-jabbed.
They’re doing both. He’s off to a good start.
"Thank you oh Dark Lord for you wise words" so Vox will answer my question, would be Flattery.
Is there a similar for respect?
A Delta encounters an Alpha in an everyday social situation. How would he behave if he was showing too much, the right amount, or not enough respect?
"Thanks Vox"
For answering my question would be Kindness.
Don't overthink it.
Also, does that change if your in a professional setting?
Vox, is there any chance you could share those five compliments? Curious to know what they were and how five instances could have such an impact.
None whatsoever.
Kind of figured that.
14 years ago I was walking with my wife and pushing my baby son in a pram, when a stranger stopped me and asked whether I was Hugh Jackman.
To her disappointment I am a poor-man’s Hugh, but I still remember the compliment.
I’ll never forget pushing my child in his stroller when two girls in their early 20s drove by and yelled at me “Hot Dad!” One of the best compliments I got from a stranger, and the perfect example of why the Golden Rule isn’t sufficient. If I drove by a woman and yelled at her Hot Mom, she’d likely consider it a cat call and be offended.
{sigh} Cause it likely WOULD be a cat call. I believe that men love catcalls directed toward them for the reason Vox wrote above... Usually, when a man is catcalling a woman, it not an expression of anything great about her except that, however fleetingly, he wants to/would have sex with her. For a woman, from an unknown man, that is NEITHER a compliment nor a kindness!
This ties in with Vox's description of the purpose: if he is the *agent* speaking out of his desire for something from the *object*, yet thinking it's 'good' or kind for the object towards whom his cupidity is directed.... eh. Not so much. I have on occasion said to a man passing by, "Oh! You smell fantastic!" (I'm a huge fan of the original Polo fragrance! Kinda lose my decorum, just about want to follow him around...)
Mostly, my "apology to men for feminism" is making a point of looking directly in his eyes, smiling, and saying "oh I LOVE Southern gentleman!" when he unconsciously opens a door for me... I am honestly 'describing' him/his actions and praising HIM for having done them. (And to that one semi-sullen guy who responded with "I'm not Southern," I answered: "Well, you're still a gentleman.")
Haha, yeah, same experience, last week I was riding a bike toward two girls on a bench, one whispered to the other one "someone hot's coming!" and both stared. It wasn't much of a whisper, obviously. Definitely made my day.
And to the women, these unprompted and honest compliments are the ones we are talking about. I mean, say he has a nice shirt and all, but we don't really remember the ones about the shirt.
A shirt complement implies that she likes your sense of style. If you get a couple of complements about the same or similar shirts, it means your style choice is on point.
I don't know about you, but I absolutely remember those shirt complements and it has changed my overall clothing style.
Yep. It can also be a veiled compliment on the guy's overall attractiveness where she wants to compliment his appearance but not open the door for romantic development.
Both can be memorable, but the direct "someone hot's coming" is likely more impactful to most men.
"Nice shirt" is absolutely a compliment on a guy's overall attractiveness, because women naturally avoid talking to unattractive men.
Even if she loves the shirt, she'll remain mute, if worn by an unattractive guy.
When I was 14, the mom of one of my girlfriend’s friends told them that she couldn’t believe how pretty I was, just unnaturally attractive. This compliment still carries me 20 years later.