The woman who marries into a family will be in competition for hub status for who gets to distribute the resources that man brings in.
A man marrying is a loss of a resource provider to mom and sisters. Plain Jane is less likely to to be the hub of her family of origin and divert resources that way, and more likely to join the female hierarchy of the man’s family and keep his resources internal to it, and allow MIL or most powerful sister to stay the resource allocator.
There's a sense of "propping up" the less pretty girls. If I had an opportunity to set up a less attractive vs more attractive friend, I'd like for the less attractive friend to get an opportunity. It's that "make everything fair" instinct.
Additionally, I'd be nervous matchmaking a very attractive girl to a guy friend, b/c if she rejects him, part of that falls back onto me. There's greater odds she'll be into him if she's less attractive.
I never tried to set up any male friends or relatives with anyone, so I can't answer personally. I felt weird telling them who or how to date, and they also felt strange about it the one time I tried to "help" in real life. I don't interfere or help them. They're big boys.
However, even when you're not interested in dating a male friend, they may give you a lot of attention. If a woman he is interested in comes along, he may then devote all his energy to the other girl. Maybe it's about attention or resources.
It's also possible she may not know what the man's preferences are. I still don't understand who Vox thinks is attractive other than a very generic of: blond, blue eyes, long legs. I don't get my male relatives' and friends' preferences either.
While my wife and I have set up friends, to varying degrees of success, the best option has been to invite all the friends to a backyard party. Introduce singles when appropriate, but otherwise leave them to their own devices.
Hmm. I think it could be because we women instinctively know that beauty is fleeting and that what will make a happy marriage is a willingness to grow together and an unselfish attitude, and that is why when I tell a male relative about a girl that I think he might like, I really don't give a hoot if she has a few extra pounds or is not the prettiest. But then, the only male relative I've ever suggested a girl to has access to plenty of pretty girls who are airheads and clearly prefers someone he can have a deeper relationship with.
I've always figured that the attractive girls don't need the help, and that the primary goal of the matchmaker is to signal friendship to the Plain Jane. Whether a match is made or not is secondary.
It would appear the problem is somewhat overblown.
Women's matchmaking sounds like it should work more or less okay for Deltas or Gammas. Alphas and Sigmas don't strike me as the kind who would let a woman matchmake for them in any case, and Bravos can get dates through their Alphas.
My mom set up her male best friend from elementary school with another high school girlfriend when they were in their 20's. They've been married for over 25 years, so it was a great match. Guess who isn't friends anymore. I remember my mom crying over these friendships when I was young because the now wife had accused the husband of cheating on her with my mom. It was absolutely ridiculous, and there was no evidence, just jealousy. My mom, a married woman, was very respectful of their marriage and only hung out with the husband if the wife was there. She was however, very close with his entire family, as his dad was like an adopted father to my mom. I'm talking like she's known these people since she was 5 years old and we would go to family gatherings and birthday parties with his extended family all the time. It was like suddenly my mom's girlfriend just turned on her. It was heartbreaking, but my mom was able to move on and stay in touch with the family without creating drama. I just visited the husband's dad a few months ago because he was like a grandfather to me and he's pretty sick.
The phrase “you’re not losing a daughter, you’re gaining a son” comes to mind. Women are pack animals and thrive on friendships. We have a series of groups in which we function.
As a male friend, he may fall into the “Can fix things for me” group and finding another woman who is a romantic partner means that you are losing him. There is a better than 50% chance that you will lose his friendship because his girlfriend might take up all his time or not like you. We all know women, even have friends, who make it clear that they go through a boyfriend’s phone and dictate who he can see and spend time with. As a wife, she has even more influence on him.
This may be less of a problem with women in solid relationships where they trust their husband or high tier women.
I suspect the reason for women setting their male friends up with plain janes is related to Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism: "The most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that social values be overturned in order that, Come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered hotter-looking."
Even more than planfully pre-empting competition, I think these ineffective setter-uppers are motivated by a desire to soothe their own egos in that exact moment. If they pretend that their plain jane peers and inferiors are good matches for their handsome and high status male friends, then by extension they too deserve a handsome Prince Charming. That thought is so temptingly ego-gratifying that it pre-empts their alleged desire to help their male friends.
A lot of it has to do with a girl, subconsciously usually, not wanting any competition or threats for attention in her current orbit. Even if she's already with a guy, and happy, she still doesn't necessarily want her guy friend to have a woman that's prettier, smarter, more whatever than her, around and possibly lose the esteem she has with her boyfriend or male friend. It's a kind of hoarding behavior, like when you're a kid and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them.
Some women know they do it, most don't recognize it unless it's pointed out, then vehemently deny that's what they're doing.
"and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them."
Especially when said toys are ignored and unused, until the very moment another kid wanted to play with it. Now "it's mine", but not before or shortly after.
A lot of it has to do with a girl, subconsciously usually, not wanting any competition or threats for attention in her current orbit. Even if she's already with a guy, and happy, she still doesn't necessarily want her guy friend to have a woman that's prettier, smarter, more whatever than her, around and possibly lose the esteem she has with her boyfriend or male friend. It's a kind of hoarding behavior, like when you're a kid and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them.
Some women know they do it, most don't recognize it unless it's pointed out, then vehemently deny that's what they're doing.
A lot of it is an instinctive urge to not allow a prettier girl, who is her competition even if she's with a different guy, into her orbit of people. I don't think a lot of women even realize they do it, it's kind of a subconscious, instinctive preference. Plus, some women don't want others happier than they currently are, so pairing a guy friend with a girl he actually wants also carries that risk.
The problem reminds me of the one of Anna Karenina. The field has changed so much that parents simply don't know what to do. There are no more rules, and anyone saying or pretending otherwise is just wrong. I've seen disasters of "trads" trying to imposed silly ideas of what "trad courtship" is from some Jane Austin novel is on their children, when no one else around them is doing so.
Such things only work when EVERYONE is doing so. Courtship and dating are a SOCIAL NORM.
Thus, it has to be something that a village or town, a society works out and agrees on together.
Otherwise you just are a freaking wierdo pushing wierdo ideas on your children that will push them away, and I've seen it happen. If people want something more akin to that, they need to change the society and be an evangelist there first; not punish their poor children like a dictator.
There are some types who insist the man has to ask the dad before even going on a date. Like you said, if it's the social norm, it's all good. When it's not, it sounds outright deranged. The only other alternative is to find a match for them, which is actually far more doable than people think, but requires a good social circle and remembering what it was like to be young so you don't select boring duds.
This just brings up so many memories of my female friends in high school and college setting me up with numerous failed dates with no regards to my well known preferences. They weren't hunting for a good match for me, they were hunting for a good match for their friend group. Hindsight is 20/20.
The woman who marries into a family will be in competition for hub status for who gets to distribute the resources that man brings in.
A man marrying is a loss of a resource provider to mom and sisters. Plain Jane is less likely to to be the hub of her family of origin and divert resources that way, and more likely to join the female hierarchy of the man’s family and keep his resources internal to it, and allow MIL or most powerful sister to stay the resource allocator.
There's a sense of "propping up" the less pretty girls. If I had an opportunity to set up a less attractive vs more attractive friend, I'd like for the less attractive friend to get an opportunity. It's that "make everything fair" instinct.
Additionally, I'd be nervous matchmaking a very attractive girl to a guy friend, b/c if she rejects him, part of that falls back onto me. There's greater odds she'll be into him if she's less attractive.
"All the charm of a hibernating swamp turtle." Is the greatest line ever written.
All other women are inferior anyway, so what’s the problem here?
The woman with the most "envy tokens" wins. These tokens are earned by following social rules that reward control over others.
Femininity is about managing the Big Galactic Envy the way a Jedi Knight manages the force.
I never tried to set up any male friends or relatives with anyone, so I can't answer personally. I felt weird telling them who or how to date, and they also felt strange about it the one time I tried to "help" in real life. I don't interfere or help them. They're big boys.
However, even when you're not interested in dating a male friend, they may give you a lot of attention. If a woman he is interested in comes along, he may then devote all his energy to the other girl. Maybe it's about attention or resources.
It's also possible she may not know what the man's preferences are. I still don't understand who Vox thinks is attractive other than a very generic of: blond, blue eyes, long legs. I don't get my male relatives' and friends' preferences either.
While my wife and I have set up friends, to varying degrees of success, the best option has been to invite all the friends to a backyard party. Introduce singles when appropriate, but otherwise leave them to their own devices.
Hmm. I think it could be because we women instinctively know that beauty is fleeting and that what will make a happy marriage is a willingness to grow together and an unselfish attitude, and that is why when I tell a male relative about a girl that I think he might like, I really don't give a hoot if she has a few extra pounds or is not the prettiest. But then, the only male relative I've ever suggested a girl to has access to plenty of pretty girls who are airheads and clearly prefers someone he can have a deeper relationship with.
You might not give a hoot, but he certainly does.
This is exactly what is meant when it is observed that women have no empathy.
I've always figured that the attractive girls don't need the help, and that the primary goal of the matchmaker is to signal friendship to the Plain Jane. Whether a match is made or not is secondary.
My best friend set me up with my husband of 30 years, so IDK.
Maybe it is a Delta or Bravo wife (or stable girlfriend) phenomenon?
A girl helping her girl friend land a husband is different than a girl helping her guy friend find a hot woman.
No offense, but a girl is more likely to have a plain Jane best friend she wants her guy friend to marry.
Also, the way you phrased it:
"is different than a girl helping her guy friend find a hot woman"
helps answer the original question
Women over-rate themselves AND other women now because of social media + empire of lies.
"Hot woman" thus = 5+ to a woman. Most of her recommendations will necessarily below 7. Not hot.
The ability to imagine what another person wants is also not a strong suit in the female sex, and has been eteliolated: likely due to the same forces.
So with the best will in the world...
Bad matches.
Active malice is also on the table, but not required.
"Bad matches."
It might not even be a bad match. Average Janes are good fits for average Joes. She'll probably be a decent wife.
But that mismatch between female and male perspective means that the girls will discount the male value on female beauty in matchmaking.
Yep!
It would appear the problem is somewhat overblown.
Women's matchmaking sounds like it should work more or less okay for Deltas or Gammas. Alphas and Sigmas don't strike me as the kind who would let a woman matchmake for them in any case, and Bravos can get dates through their Alphas.
That's a fair cop.
My mom set up her male best friend from elementary school with another high school girlfriend when they were in their 20's. They've been married for over 25 years, so it was a great match. Guess who isn't friends anymore. I remember my mom crying over these friendships when I was young because the now wife had accused the husband of cheating on her with my mom. It was absolutely ridiculous, and there was no evidence, just jealousy. My mom, a married woman, was very respectful of their marriage and only hung out with the husband if the wife was there. She was however, very close with his entire family, as his dad was like an adopted father to my mom. I'm talking like she's known these people since she was 5 years old and we would go to family gatherings and birthday parties with his extended family all the time. It was like suddenly my mom's girlfriend just turned on her. It was heartbreaking, but my mom was able to move on and stay in touch with the family without creating drama. I just visited the husband's dad a few months ago because he was like a grandfather to me and he's pretty sick.
The phrase “you’re not losing a daughter, you’re gaining a son” comes to mind. Women are pack animals and thrive on friendships. We have a series of groups in which we function.
As a male friend, he may fall into the “Can fix things for me” group and finding another woman who is a romantic partner means that you are losing him. There is a better than 50% chance that you will lose his friendship because his girlfriend might take up all his time or not like you. We all know women, even have friends, who make it clear that they go through a boyfriend’s phone and dictate who he can see and spend time with. As a wife, she has even more influence on him.
This may be less of a problem with women in solid relationships where they trust their husband or high tier women.
I suspect the reason for women setting their male friends up with plain janes is related to Sailer’s Law of Female Journalism: "The most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that social values be overturned in order that, Come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered hotter-looking."
Even more than planfully pre-empting competition, I think these ineffective setter-uppers are motivated by a desire to soothe their own egos in that exact moment. If they pretend that their plain jane peers and inferiors are good matches for their handsome and high status male friends, then by extension they too deserve a handsome Prince Charming. That thought is so temptingly ego-gratifying that it pre-empts their alleged desire to help their male friends.
A lot of it has to do with a girl, subconsciously usually, not wanting any competition or threats for attention in her current orbit. Even if she's already with a guy, and happy, she still doesn't necessarily want her guy friend to have a woman that's prettier, smarter, more whatever than her, around and possibly lose the esteem she has with her boyfriend or male friend. It's a kind of hoarding behavior, like when you're a kid and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them.
Some women know they do it, most don't recognize it unless it's pointed out, then vehemently deny that's what they're doing.
"and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them."
Especially when said toys are ignored and unused, until the very moment another kid wanted to play with it. Now "it's mine", but not before or shortly after.
A lot of it has to do with a girl, subconsciously usually, not wanting any competition or threats for attention in her current orbit. Even if she's already with a guy, and happy, she still doesn't necessarily want her guy friend to have a woman that's prettier, smarter, more whatever than her, around and possibly lose the esteem she has with her boyfriend or male friend. It's a kind of hoarding behavior, like when you're a kid and keep all your toys to yourself and cry "mine" when someone tries to take them.
Some women know they do it, most don't recognize it unless it's pointed out, then vehemently deny that's what they're doing.
A lot of it is an instinctive urge to not allow a prettier girl, who is her competition even if she's with a different guy, into her orbit of people. I don't think a lot of women even realize they do it, it's kind of a subconscious, instinctive preference. Plus, some women don't want others happier than they currently are, so pairing a guy friend with a girl he actually wants also carries that risk.
Hilarious.
The problem reminds me of the one of Anna Karenina. The field has changed so much that parents simply don't know what to do. There are no more rules, and anyone saying or pretending otherwise is just wrong. I've seen disasters of "trads" trying to imposed silly ideas of what "trad courtship" is from some Jane Austin novel is on their children, when no one else around them is doing so.
Such things only work when EVERYONE is doing so. Courtship and dating are a SOCIAL NORM.
Thus, it has to be something that a village or town, a society works out and agrees on together.
Otherwise you just are a freaking wierdo pushing wierdo ideas on your children that will push them away, and I've seen it happen. If people want something more akin to that, they need to change the society and be an evangelist there first; not punish their poor children like a dictator.
There are some types who insist the man has to ask the dad before even going on a date. Like you said, if it's the social norm, it's all good. When it's not, it sounds outright deranged. The only other alternative is to find a match for them, which is actually far more doable than people think, but requires a good social circle and remembering what it was like to be young so you don't select boring duds.
This just brings up so many memories of my female friends in high school and college setting me up with numerous failed dates with no regards to my well known preferences. They weren't hunting for a good match for me, they were hunting for a good match for their friend group. Hindsight is 20/20.