If you're 30 and have low test, you either have a genetic disfunction or you are a fat and lazy slob. Working out and losing some pounds and getting off the soy will very quickly raise your test level back to normal.
Be careful with this. There can be lifelong side effects from going on Testosterone replacement. I would limit this to extreme cases and when the right behaviors are not doing enough.
What are the side effects of going on a reasonable TRT protocol? Reasonable being a rather unnecessary adjective since TRT should aim for physiological levels.
Pretty sure. In the weightlifting world it is well known that TRT is used as a performance enhancing drug and people know there are side effects significant enough that it shouldn't be done just for the gain.
Doofs first line about "what am supposed to do" really phrases it gamma. Even while asking for advice he's posturing as above society and showing disgust at having to lower himself to engage with it
This is the advice I gave a Delta friend who sincerely wanted the truth. And he actually applied it, got a nice woman, and then thanked me later for straight shooting.
Why does a gamma ask for advice if they do not intend to take it? Are they hoping for some kind of vain flattery instead of instruction?
The gamma wants to know it's ok to give up. That's it. Notice when you talk to one next time that when you excuse their nonaction they are your best friend and when you insist they do an action they resist you. Even worse if you are the sort to take your own advice and you tell them to do something because you are currently doing it and it's working. That just gives them incentive to sabotage you so they can continue to excuse their inaction by your failure.
It's why r/antiwork is so big among gammas because it says nonaction is the ideal action, it's ranks have swelled. On the other hand WranglerStar and Owen Big Bear are attacked constantly by ostensibly right leaning anti-Satan crowds because their only prescription is action. Almost any action, really.
Gamma only ask questions when they believe they know the answer. Its a form of affirmation. If the answer doesn't fit within their delusion they reset to factory defaults and purge your input.
Well, when a woman asks you for advice, she generally doesn't want a solution, she wants you to empathize with her. Vox is probably on target that Gammas think more like women than like men---a man almost always wants a solution, not empathy.
Possibly. I was just conveying what patterns I'd seen after giving some thought beyond my first comment. Thanks for the feedback, I'll think on it some more!
If you don't have time for the gym, try a job that is physically demanding like landscaping, lineman work, tree work, welding, restaurant work, farming, etc.
Is it that gammas are scared to do hard and painful things because of the pain itself? Or is it that they fear revealing to themselves just how weak or incompetent they are? I guess it's both, but which is the biggest demotivator for them?
It's always really interesting listening to blackpill types talk about self-improvement behaviors because without fail, their motivations are always something other than self improvement. It's in the name; you do it for yourself. People can tell when you're only getting your act together to receive their acceptance, instead of doing it because it's the right thing to do.
Some people will not lift one finger for the man in the mirror, and it smells.
They don't play with the risks that men play with. If you don't have friends who do hard and painful things, how would you know if you survive and grow from it? And if they are only able to see their perspectives, then he hasn't thought of which kind of guy girls prefer to be with. Is she allowed to reject him and choose another guy, if he is writing bad poetry to her?
Hitting on a girl leads to both getting laid and getting her drink thrown in your face. When does it lead to rejection? If he doesn't play sports or go to the gym, she might never want to do any cardio with him. The gamma might not have been at a party where he saw girls trying to get with guys. And if that happens at school, was he paying attention to that?
Definitely revealing to themselves their own weakness and incompetence. They spend their entire life force creating the delusion, so anything that forces them into reality even for a moment triggers the reset to factory defaults.
An example: my gamma son once challenged me to a foot race, stating that he would "smoke" me. We ran, I pulled ahead, he faked a knee injury and fell to the floor. Since that day, anything to do with mom-and-athletics has been heavily censored in his mind since it triggers him. It's heartbreaking and frustrating to watch, but even more so to try to help. Especially knowing that until they decide to change there's nothing you can do.
Of course it's odd, it's textbook gamma and the gamma thought pattern is not normal by any stretch. I am 5'2 and petite, my husband is 6'2, very big and strapping and strong. A gamma only picks a fight with a weaker target. Gamma-Son wouldn't challenge his dad to something physical because he knows he would be bested, so he challenged me. He was a foot taller and assumed he would also be faster and stronger than me. He was mistaken. The fact that his expectations were violated made the loss that much harder for him to take.
So, what would the "what" that the bravos and deltas do in such situations? Because sometimes they also try and be funny and themselves, though obviously not as badly as Doof.
Bravos I've known would probably hit free weights. They would enjoy it, make a hobby of it possibly, but see it as a means to an end. I feel like I've seen Bravos take to weights quickly, but also drop off it quickly - ie they may drop it off once an end is achieved or if life doesn't let them anymore, they don't feel bad about it.
Deltas I've known would either see it as a distraction from their goal or, if they did take it up, would make it a part of 'who they are' the same way they do with work. I feel like the Deltas I know that got into lifting feel almost down and guilty if they ever drop off of lifting once they start, and they're SUPER into the process and perfection of how it's done in the same way I've seen them with work
You might be over-thinking the relationship between other SSH groups and lifting weights. I'd think being a gym-rat is sort of orthogonal to your current SSH.
It's more that being a Gamma means preferring the path of (perceived) less discomfort...of which avoiding the physical discomfort at the gym is just Par for the Course.
I'd guess the Gamma delusion bubble also surrounds and clouds any long time preference future planning as well.
This is not an attempt to be contrarian, as I fully agree with your (and by extension VD's) statement on Gammas and discomfort/pain. However, during twenty plus years in the gym, I've noticed a weird subset: the gamma weightlifter.
Some traits (more observations welcome):
1) Despite their muscular strength, they are generally clumsy and uncoordinated, and do not play any sports. (A friend could out squat me by 150 pounds, yet if we ran half a block he'd trip over his own feet.)
2) They often, but not exclusively, lift via machines and not free weights, and despite the above example, they do not understand "leg days".
3) The improvement in physique does not necessarily translate to improved interactions with the opposite sex. Sexual Mindset rarely improves.
4) They can spend a few hours on a slow stressless workout. A quick 40-minute power-set is anathema to them.
Lifting is generally mentioned as one of the best things a man can do to improve their positive masculine tendencies and whittling away the negative traits of their personality, but it's curious to see the "delusion bubble" of a gamma limiting even these gains.
I used to work with a gamma "body builder". He did the same 4-5 exercises every week, and had been for the past *three years*. He looked like a twig, and had been on a weight/reps plateau for a year at the time I met him. I worked out with him once or twice in an attempt to be friendly; it was fascinating how injury averse he was. Any potential limit pushing was met with "you could get hurt!".
I agree with you B. Possibly a better way to describe lifting for the Man: Necessary but not Sufficient.
Will add, I have seen those folks that you describe as well. Sometimes the best lessons the Iron can teach are the ones that you have to "take your beating like a man" to get.
Typing this with an icepack on my shoulder from heavy bench day. Friends don't let Friends live on the Machines at the gym.
The mere fact that he is asking the question of what else he can do portrays that the gamma doesn't understand female nature, and as Vox rightfully put it, don't take relationship advice from women. The Alpha/Sigma have the privilege of being themselves.
In my understanding, the cost of attraction is greater then the benefit of meeting the goal of attraction. And I think that is because the goal for a boy/gamma is fictional/illusive. They want to always be takers and not givers.
I have heard men in this community talk about being mission oriented and not focused on winning attraction over women. That is the right orientation. My desire to attract women dissipated once I was able to attract their attention. As did the illusion.
That is because the women I had wanted to attract were an illusion. I had wanted a mommy to bolster my ego. I grew up and conquered that "taker" boy nature. Now, instead I see girls that want a man with my new found strengths to be their "giving" father figure.
Reminds me of 'the wedding ring effect'. A man whom other women already like is confirmed. The other men are questioned. Why aren't any women talking with him? Is he even trying? In biology, the female wants the real thing. And the most real and true thing is expensive. If he can get it, he has the look of a winner. And the attention spent on being ripped and fit, it's expensive. You have to eat the right foods, sleep undisturbed and you have to play the sport, both run fast and lift heavy. Or else you won't build an attractive body. And we men look for similar things in women. Do the work or else.
There's another alternative. I haven't set foot in a gym for years, and I'm pretty ripped for a 54 year old man. I do it by working a very physical job. I make at least as much as I would in an office, and it keeps me in top shape.
It definitely solves the problem most people struggle with; that of motivation. You might not feel like going to the gym, but you have to go to work whether you like it or not. Plus, the lack of office politics, backstabbing and having to kiss the butts of pointy-haired moron bosses is pretty sweet as well.
A gym membership is nice, but you can also get in incredible shape through progressive calisthenics and walking/running. These literally cost nothing except time and the application of self-discipline.
Need to be able to lift my kids...
Excellent driver.
Look at how strong dad is, meme points to the truth.
For those in dire need, getting your testosterone level up to high normal can be transformative.
it won’t change who you are but it will give you new drive to self-improve.
40 years ago not needed
Today, in our estrogenized world, even 30 year olds can use a pop.
If you're 30 and have low test, you either have a genetic disfunction or you are a fat and lazy slob. Working out and losing some pounds and getting off the soy will very quickly raise your test level back to normal.
It's worth a test. There's a lot of vaccine damage going around, especially as they've ramped up both the childhood schedule and the mRNA garbage.
Be careful with this. There can be lifelong side effects from going on Testosterone replacement. I would limit this to extreme cases and when the right behaviors are not doing enough.
What are the side effects of going on a reasonable TRT protocol? Reasonable being a rather unnecessary adjective since TRT should aim for physiological levels.
It can shrink your balls and make you infertile.
Are you sure that the whole shrink your balls thing is real? It sounds like feminist man-hating propaganda.
Pretty sure. In the weightlifting world it is well known that TRT is used as a performance enhancing drug and people know there are side effects significant enough that it shouldn't be done just for the gain.
Doofs first line about "what am supposed to do" really phrases it gamma. Even while asking for advice he's posturing as above society and showing disgust at having to lower himself to engage with it
This is the advice I gave a Delta friend who sincerely wanted the truth. And he actually applied it, got a nice woman, and then thanked me later for straight shooting.
Why does a gamma ask for advice if they do not intend to take it? Are they hoping for some kind of vain flattery instead of instruction?
The gamma wants to know it's ok to give up. That's it. Notice when you talk to one next time that when you excuse their nonaction they are your best friend and when you insist they do an action they resist you. Even worse if you are the sort to take your own advice and you tell them to do something because you are currently doing it and it's working. That just gives them incentive to sabotage you so they can continue to excuse their inaction by your failure.
It's why r/antiwork is so big among gammas because it says nonaction is the ideal action, it's ranks have swelled. On the other hand WranglerStar and Owen Big Bear are attacked constantly by ostensibly right leaning anti-Satan crowds because their only prescription is action. Almost any action, really.
Gamma only ask questions when they believe they know the answer. Its a form of affirmation. If the answer doesn't fit within their delusion they reset to factory defaults and purge your input.
Well, when a woman asks you for advice, she generally doesn't want a solution, she wants you to empathize with her. Vox is probably on target that Gammas think more like women than like men---a man almost always wants a solution, not empathy.
Its more like a commitment than a specific exercise place.
A Gamma needs to choose a fitness path that is not just a specific goal, ie to get the girl, but also a way of life, to be done post getting the girl.
Long range planning? That may not be part of the Gamma Mindset.
Last two sentences are excellent.
Possibly. I was just conveying what patterns I'd seen after giving some thought beyond my first comment. Thanks for the feedback, I'll think on it some more!
If you don't have time for the gym, try a job that is physically demanding like landscaping, lineman work, tree work, welding, restaurant work, farming, etc.
Go keto and do some cardio and weights o4 bodyweight exercises. You will oae weight. You will stand taller and be more confident.
The cost is minimal.YGyms are for motivation from your training partners.
Is it that gammas are scared to do hard and painful things because of the pain itself? Or is it that they fear revealing to themselves just how weak or incompetent they are? I guess it's both, but which is the biggest demotivator for them?
It's always really interesting listening to blackpill types talk about self-improvement behaviors because without fail, their motivations are always something other than self improvement. It's in the name; you do it for yourself. People can tell when you're only getting your act together to receive their acceptance, instead of doing it because it's the right thing to do.
Some people will not lift one finger for the man in the mirror, and it smells.
They don't play with the risks that men play with. If you don't have friends who do hard and painful things, how would you know if you survive and grow from it? And if they are only able to see their perspectives, then he hasn't thought of which kind of guy girls prefer to be with. Is she allowed to reject him and choose another guy, if he is writing bad poetry to her?
Hitting on a girl leads to both getting laid and getting her drink thrown in your face. When does it lead to rejection? If he doesn't play sports or go to the gym, she might never want to do any cardio with him. The gamma might not have been at a party where he saw girls trying to get with guys. And if that happens at school, was he paying attention to that?
Definitely revealing to themselves their own weakness and incompetence. They spend their entire life force creating the delusion, so anything that forces them into reality even for a moment triggers the reset to factory defaults.
An example: my gamma son once challenged me to a foot race, stating that he would "smoke" me. We ran, I pulled ahead, he faked a knee injury and fell to the floor. Since that day, anything to do with mom-and-athletics has been heavily censored in his mind since it triggers him. It's heartbreaking and frustrating to watch, but even more so to try to help. Especially knowing that until they decide to change there's nothing you can do.
How old is your son?
He's grown. The foot race incident happened when he was in his late teens, but nothing has changed in the 15-odd years since then.
I find it odd that a teenager would even want to compare himself athletically to his mother, and not to his father.
Of course it's odd, it's textbook gamma and the gamma thought pattern is not normal by any stretch. I am 5'2 and petite, my husband is 6'2, very big and strapping and strong. A gamma only picks a fight with a weaker target. Gamma-Son wouldn't challenge his dad to something physical because he knows he would be bested, so he challenged me. He was a foot taller and assumed he would also be faster and stronger than me. He was mistaken. The fact that his expectations were violated made the loss that much harder for him to take.
It's called giving up. Are some omegas just gammas that threw in the towel, having realized their deficiencies but lacking desire to correct them?
So, what would the "what" that the bravos and deltas do in such situations? Because sometimes they also try and be funny and themselves, though obviously not as badly as Doof.
Bravos I've known would probably hit free weights. They would enjoy it, make a hobby of it possibly, but see it as a means to an end. I feel like I've seen Bravos take to weights quickly, but also drop off it quickly - ie they may drop it off once an end is achieved or if life doesn't let them anymore, they don't feel bad about it.
Deltas I've known would either see it as a distraction from their goal or, if they did take it up, would make it a part of 'who they are' the same way they do with work. I feel like the Deltas I know that got into lifting feel almost down and guilty if they ever drop off of lifting once they start, and they're SUPER into the process and perfection of how it's done in the same way I've seen them with work
You might be over-thinking the relationship between other SSH groups and lifting weights. I'd think being a gym-rat is sort of orthogonal to your current SSH.
It's more that being a Gamma means preferring the path of (perceived) less discomfort...of which avoiding the physical discomfort at the gym is just Par for the Course.
I'd guess the Gamma delusion bubble also surrounds and clouds any long time preference future planning as well.
This is not an attempt to be contrarian, as I fully agree with your (and by extension VD's) statement on Gammas and discomfort/pain. However, during twenty plus years in the gym, I've noticed a weird subset: the gamma weightlifter.
Some traits (more observations welcome):
1) Despite their muscular strength, they are generally clumsy and uncoordinated, and do not play any sports. (A friend could out squat me by 150 pounds, yet if we ran half a block he'd trip over his own feet.)
2) They often, but not exclusively, lift via machines and not free weights, and despite the above example, they do not understand "leg days".
3) The improvement in physique does not necessarily translate to improved interactions with the opposite sex. Sexual Mindset rarely improves.
4) They can spend a few hours on a slow stressless workout. A quick 40-minute power-set is anathema to them.
Lifting is generally mentioned as one of the best things a man can do to improve their positive masculine tendencies and whittling away the negative traits of their personality, but it's curious to see the "delusion bubble" of a gamma limiting even these gains.
I used to work with a gamma "body builder". He did the same 4-5 exercises every week, and had been for the past *three years*. He looked like a twig, and had been on a weight/reps plateau for a year at the time I met him. I worked out with him once or twice in an attempt to be friendly; it was fascinating how injury averse he was. Any potential limit pushing was met with "you could get hurt!".
I agree with you B. Possibly a better way to describe lifting for the Man: Necessary but not Sufficient.
Will add, I have seen those folks that you describe as well. Sometimes the best lessons the Iron can teach are the ones that you have to "take your beating like a man" to get.
Typing this with an icepack on my shoulder from heavy bench day. Friends don't let Friends live on the Machines at the gym.
It makes sense. The purpose of weight lifting is to make gains and in the process confront reality and overcome it.
Since it's a nature, if the gamma does not fight it at the roots he will probably slide back into that behavior in time. Vox posted about this too.
It's possible he may have been a different person when he was on his way up at the beginning of his commitment to make gains.
Avoiding discomfort, rationalizing bad decisions, and not fully accepting the consequences of their own choices.
Concur, risk averse in general. Externally driven, not internally motivated if effort required.
It's amusing. Gamma rationalization, "Women like men that can achieve things... Hmmm... BOOM! Headshot!"
And the rest of us facepalm.
The mere fact that he is asking the question of what else he can do portrays that the gamma doesn't understand female nature, and as Vox rightfully put it, don't take relationship advice from women. The Alpha/Sigma have the privilege of being themselves.
Gamma wants a cheat code. Do X, receive Y. And ofc Y has to be worth far more than X cost him.
In my understanding, the cost of attraction is greater then the benefit of meeting the goal of attraction. And I think that is because the goal for a boy/gamma is fictional/illusive. They want to always be takers and not givers.
I have heard men in this community talk about being mission oriented and not focused on winning attraction over women. That is the right orientation. My desire to attract women dissipated once I was able to attract their attention. As did the illusion.
That is because the women I had wanted to attract were an illusion. I had wanted a mommy to bolster my ego. I grew up and conquered that "taker" boy nature. Now, instead I see girls that want a man with my new found strengths to be their "giving" father figure.
Oddly, the woman actually gave decent advice. That's rare, especially since she's portrayed as young.
I agree but the gamma even if he hits the gym the lady will still resent him because to her he is still that gamma that doesn't get it.
Even just walking a lot will cause them to shed weight.
Reminds me of 'the wedding ring effect'. A man whom other women already like is confirmed. The other men are questioned. Why aren't any women talking with him? Is he even trying? In biology, the female wants the real thing. And the most real and true thing is expensive. If he can get it, he has the look of a winner. And the attention spent on being ripped and fit, it's expensive. You have to eat the right foods, sleep undisturbed and you have to play the sport, both run fast and lift heavy. Or else you won't build an attractive body. And we men look for similar things in women. Do the work or else.
"It's called a Stairmaster! So get on it! And get skinny!" -The ugly truth 🤣
Lol, no it's a quote from the movie "Ugly Truth" . It was the first thing that I thought of and made me laugh.
Let me know what you think. It's a generally funny movie and has some true points , but lots of vice and immorality.
Your local Gold's Gym is $40/month. This is the cost of one "dinner" at McDonalds for a family of 4.
There are no excuses. Anyone can make some progress. You do not have to become a mass monster.
And, lifting weights may not actually cause you to lose weight. The mental benefits are worth it all on their own.
There's another alternative. I haven't set foot in a gym for years, and I'm pretty ripped for a 54 year old man. I do it by working a very physical job. I make at least as much as I would in an office, and it keeps me in top shape.
It definitely solves the problem most people struggle with; that of motivation. You might not feel like going to the gym, but you have to go to work whether you like it or not. Plus, the lack of office politics, backstabbing and having to kiss the butts of pointy-haired moron bosses is pretty sweet as well.
Physical jobs, like the iron, have the benefit of object measures of productivity
Bullshit jobs are built on ass-kissing and blowjobs.
A gym membership is nice, but you can also get in incredible shape through progressive calisthenics and walking/running. These literally cost nothing except time and the application of self-discipline.
Also, unless there's an injury, I think it's basically impossible to start lifting weights and not enjoy better posture.
Better posture and a better mental state of mind.