Sharing a story of Delta narcissism within my own company. For context, I'm a Senior PM for a $100+ Million design-build construction partner in Canada, our owner is quite far removed from day to day operations and direct involvement in our projects.
We operate in a few different provinces, so our owner flew out from Head Office for some quarterly meetings here on the West Coast accompanied by our Branch Manager. Meeting up in the morning at our warehouse, they ran into one of our site foreman (Delta) also heading out the door. The Delta foreman proceeded to hold them up for a number of minutes complaining about minor conditions on site (elevators being down, drywallers being incompetent, frames getting damaged, etc.) My branch manager, apparently staring daggers the whole time at the foreman to STFU finally was able to break the rant, and they went their separate ways.
I've worked with this foreman for a few years now, he's often on my own projects and though he's a competent worker, he has little regard for others time. The lack of self-awareness though, to complain + waste the time of the company owner, who has nothing to do with the day to day operations of the project, and doesn't even work out of this province was astonishing to hear. This is a prime example of Delta narcissism.
As Vox has pointed out on previous substacks, Deltas love to complain, which helps to solidify their status as Deltas, and lower working roles. Nobody in upper management or ownership roles wants to associate with complainers, they want forward thinking, problem solvers, go-getters or even "yes" men. I've since changed my own behaviour when interacting with this foreman, limiting him to summarized emails rather than inconvenient phone calls which often end up as complaining. We cater very well to our install staff's needs, but the line between assisting and playing therapist needed to be drawn.
To summarize this as advice for Deltas, do NOT complain around your superiors (or at all if possible). Especially those not directly responsible with helping fix your problems. Be very mindful of their time, offer to help if you actually can, and be positive about the direction of the project/company. Remember that your task, or day-to-day plight as a Delta is not their priority.
Of course this is no brainer for those already worked for corpocracy their entire life. What make you think a 39-years old does not know this basic thing? This advice is like being given to 21-years old fresh graduate.
This site is supposed to somehow categorized as self improvement. But as far as I can see in the comments and articles, I cannot find any interesting cases where SSH is somehow can be used to overcome more challenging personal situations (low social class, problematic family background) for finding mate.
Less complaining, better listener, goal-oriented at best make your job faster and improve your relationship. To land contracts, grants, promotions, partnerships, spouse, no amount of nice , smooth talking, positive thinking will have significant effects on management decision. The effect is minor at best
My comment was general and from personal experience, not directed to you. Why would I know or care what age you are, or your own issues with the SSH? Maybe there are "21-years old fresh graduates" reading this thread who could benefit from or relate to this? You are a prime example of someone needing to learn that not everything is about you.
With employment is not narcissism its sanity. Those that care about the garbage company that doesn't care about them are insane. The sane people just want to get their paycheck and go home, not make a company that will lay them off for the CEO to make a few more bucks and that has ZERO loyalty of any sort to its employees into their whole life.
I just had a delta at work heckle me for a work product at 4:30pm on Friday that had been stalled on my desk since Monday. Because it was in the back of my queue. He insisted, at an employee appreciation event, that it absolutely had to be done and hadn’t I seen it and I was holding everything up.
I stayed late to get it out, so he could give it to the customer over the weekend. The work product was good and I made my changes directly in the document. Thinking I’d done what he needed.
Fast forward to it’s Wednesday now, and I get an email about next steps that were totally different than the document I edited, only to find out he never sent the work product out. And when I responded “wtf- I thought it was a rush item that had to go out over the weekend” apparently he had been looking for more of a green light then me finishing it.
He came in to my office super sad and hurt at my “wtf email” because he felt was I was chastising him. And I was confused, explaining that “I thought your work product was great, needed minimal tweaks, and that you were sending it as soon as my edits were done because you had asked me to rush it and said it needed to be done immediately.”
I work for the org in an advisory capacity and am usually interfacing with the alpha and his bravos. And I overlooked the need to tell the Delta directly, via email, “I finished my edits. They were minimal. Great work, this is ready to send.” As soon as I finished the edits.
Now I know better, and will be conscious of sending a “good job and greenlit” email anytime I do end up interfacing with the deltas.
Sounds like you interfaced with the task as a delta would. You don't give details as to how to returned the finished product to him, so I assume you informed him you were done. Indeed with deltas and women, maybe with everybody it's quite helpful to send it off with positive remarks, and an indication that's it's ready.
He insisted I had to get it done right then. I said, “okay- I’ll stay late and won’t leave until it’s done.”
It was a shared document that I made my changes directly into. And I could see that he was in the document accepting changes from the top as I was wrapping up.
I thought that since he said it had to go out, I said I would stay to finish it, and he was accepting the changes- that it was obvious that once I got to the bottom my changes were done. And him accepting them meant he was moving forward with finalizing.
It don’t occur to me that I needed to say that I was done making changes, beyond “I won’t leave until I’m finished.”
"Get over yourself. Learn to at least respect the interests of others even if you can’t appreciate them. And above all, never imagine for one second that the intensity of your self-absorption escapes the notice of others."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This verse comes to mind.
Wounds from a sincere friend
are better than many kisses from an enemy. — Proverbs 27:6 NLT
The truth is seldom easy to hear, but always welcome.
Every narcissist’s situation is unique along with all of their problems. They all need special attention and consideration. If you’re a woman you need to shut up and listen to their opinion masquerading as wisdom. Listening and learning is not in their wheelhouse.
Hey I have been messing around with Flux AI model and some of the images I’ve generated are hilarious when typing in gamma male or sigma male pictures. Vox what AI are you using?
Now is that censored depending on what you put into the prompt? I pay for mine through Venice AI and I can create things that are not censored like Bing or Chat GPT.
Very much so. But the free version of Venice is even more censored than Bing. I get this even if I ask it to simply draw me a picture of a library.
"Safe Mode is enabled on free accounts. Upgrade to Venice Pro for access to uncensored image generation, character conversations, and advanced features."
That’s the problem free always sucks but I have a lot of fun with it with the paid version. Maybe I should post pics with Venice on my substack in relation to topics covered here just for fun
I am very fortunate to have had a few Alphas, and a Sigma as very close friends over the years.
One of the things that one of my Alpha buddies, in particular, regularly does is get me to stop focusing on the micro, and look at the macro. Every once in a while, when I get a little too one-track minded, I remind myself to just shoot the breeze with him, and realign my perspective.
It's incredibly refreshing to have someone point out your navel-gazing, and set you on the right track.
Beyond only talking about anything in relation to themselves, narcissistic deltas talk about everything as being an issue for them. This problem, that problem, this completely normal thing that has been happening since the beginning of time is a problem and especially so for him. Everything is a problem for them and dammit they want someone to hear them bitch.
God bless the ones who have internalized the saying, "I could complain but nobody would listen." I find they're the happy deltas. Without constant lament, they notice a lot more pleasantness in the world.
Maybe Vox will comment, but shooting from the hip I'd say numerically speaking, any nation would presumably have more deltas than anything, but the sort of national attitude/demeanor might be something different.
E.g., I'm sure Israel has more deltas than anything else just like any other nation. But the Ira character/attitude that dominates their culture and international relations (sabotaging everyone, always the victim, etc.) is clearly gamma.
In one sense I think it's tangential or second-order to an individual's SSH pattern, but in another sense stereotypes are real and Indians really are reliably creepy as shit.
Readers like the one our host mentioned in the article kind of remind me of obese people who want to lose weight, but without exercise and a calorie deficit.
I just had the most intense altercation with a guy on my work site I've ever had in my life. I'm certain he was a full blown narcissist or smoking crack. Possibly both.
I worked with him three hours and had a full on mental break down. Left me questioning every aspect of my life.
Every task was a constant battle for control and in my confusion I caused an Isolation breach (sackable offence). I had no choice but to talk to HR about it. All I said was, "Dan and I had an argument, we can't work together". They called him in and before the conversation even began he was accusing me of death staring him, then he told them about the Isolation breach and just started attacking me with everything he had.
I ended up getting sacked. He still works there. I've never felt sowntally tortured in my life.
He managed to control the whole room. manipulated everybody.
An object lesson in staying focused on the mission first and foremost. You're probably better off being out of that situation, but you shouldn't have gotten emotionally engaged to the point of actually screwing up your work.
I don't understand why the fellow couldn't just read your post and reason from it what he should do without bothering to ask you. It's clear enough. But I guess deltas/gammas need direction? If so, it's an understandable, if contemptible, kind of narcissism. Poor guys can't figure things out for themselves.
Like everyone, they like to talk about themselves. Unlike most women and higher-status men, they don't often find people willing to listen to them talk about themselves.
Imagine the women are like your children, or what your future children would be. You do the things FOR THEIR BENEFIT. You go to the parks FOR THEM. You do the other things FOR THEM. But, also, you balance it with a mindset of asking women to join you. If you're doing it right, you're asking women to join you in a lifestyle that they match up with you - because the women simply fits in your life. So, you're doing things you enjoy as well, and are not too much out of the way.
As in Vox's example - he's doing cardio he doesn't need, but he's already in the gym. Not out of his way, not something he doesn't enjoy, they fit into his life, him into theirs.
How hard is this people? You have to become, literally, the type of spouse that the man or woman that you want to marry, would actually marry! That means you have to think, and put yourself in their shoes, for at least a little while.
If you want to marry a traditional type of woman, you have to be a traditional type of man. You have to do those types of things - have a job, stabile, not do crazy things, put yourself out there as one, be in the situations where SHE CAN SEE YOU DOING THOSE THINGS, and then attract her as DOING THOSE THINGS.
If you want a gym bunny, you have to be attractive. You have to go to the gym, be in shape, do the lifestyle things of that - the health, the food, the whole shebang. You then have to, as Vox says, PUT YOURSELF WHERE SHE'LL SEE YOU DOING THOSE THINGS. And ATTRACT AND SPEAK TO HER doing those thing.
If you want to, for some stupid reason, attract some bar wench or theatre girl, the same things would apply. You go to the bars, you do the things. Or the theatre.
People seem to imagine that they can just go to the bar or something, and meet the Church girl. No, that's where you meet the bar girl.
You meet the park girl at the park
The gym girl at the gym
The Church girl at Church.
And, if you're being a full, legit human being while doing things at these locations - you'll meet people. You'll sympathize/empathize with them. You'll fall into groups there, and can develop some social credit there that will place you in a hierarchy that she can see and judge you on.
And if you, being you, don't match up your lifestyle to what she expects - then that disconnect will be enough to drive away many women. It will GET the attention of many, so you'll stand out at least. But due to women's in/out grouping, and the average delta's complete inability to understand how to navigate social dynamics - this attention is almost always completely negative.
B-but if you change your life to accommodate women you are SIMPING! Real men just do their own thing! My based and trad anime pillow makes no demands of me whatsoever!
I remember the manosphere days of old like that. The people that just wanted to get laid, or didn't understand being human. Where meeting women was spreadsheets and numbers, rather than real human beings interacting with each other
Very nicely said. I heard it called 'reverse goal setting' recently which would phrase it like this: "See that girl over there? What kind of guy do you think she's with? Ok, what would that guy be doing for his diet/hobby/friday night/right now and why aren't you doing it too?"
This is the sort of advice I gave my son. Want a woman? Go where they are. Pick up a hobby where you can meet them - diving, hiking, dancing even. Become interesting, they'll be there. I remember back in the manosphere days where dudes would say they're going to an Orthodox church, or Catholic church to get a trad woman. Cracked me up. I've even seen it. Had one, a creepy one, show up at a men's club meeting at my parish, said he was in RCIA, and while he didn't say it outright, he was there to get the gurlz. An unfortunate ginger gamma. Never saw him after that. Guess it didn't work out.
Exactly. Be the man you see your future wife being with. Or a man on the journey to being that man is sufficient, provided you are ok with accepting a woman also working on herself
Sharing a story of Delta narcissism within my own company. For context, I'm a Senior PM for a $100+ Million design-build construction partner in Canada, our owner is quite far removed from day to day operations and direct involvement in our projects.
We operate in a few different provinces, so our owner flew out from Head Office for some quarterly meetings here on the West Coast accompanied by our Branch Manager. Meeting up in the morning at our warehouse, they ran into one of our site foreman (Delta) also heading out the door. The Delta foreman proceeded to hold them up for a number of minutes complaining about minor conditions on site (elevators being down, drywallers being incompetent, frames getting damaged, etc.) My branch manager, apparently staring daggers the whole time at the foreman to STFU finally was able to break the rant, and they went their separate ways.
I've worked with this foreman for a few years now, he's often on my own projects and though he's a competent worker, he has little regard for others time. The lack of self-awareness though, to complain + waste the time of the company owner, who has nothing to do with the day to day operations of the project, and doesn't even work out of this province was astonishing to hear. This is a prime example of Delta narcissism.
As Vox has pointed out on previous substacks, Deltas love to complain, which helps to solidify their status as Deltas, and lower working roles. Nobody in upper management or ownership roles wants to associate with complainers, they want forward thinking, problem solvers, go-getters or even "yes" men. I've since changed my own behaviour when interacting with this foreman, limiting him to summarized emails rather than inconvenient phone calls which often end up as complaining. We cater very well to our install staff's needs, but the line between assisting and playing therapist needed to be drawn.
To summarize this as advice for Deltas, do NOT complain around your superiors (or at all if possible). Especially those not directly responsible with helping fix your problems. Be very mindful of their time, offer to help if you actually can, and be positive about the direction of the project/company. Remember that your task, or day-to-day plight as a Delta is not their priority.
Of course this is no brainer for those already worked for corpocracy their entire life. What make you think a 39-years old does not know this basic thing? This advice is like being given to 21-years old fresh graduate.
This site is supposed to somehow categorized as self improvement. But as far as I can see in the comments and articles, I cannot find any interesting cases where SSH is somehow can be used to overcome more challenging personal situations (low social class, problematic family background) for finding mate.
Less complaining, better listener, goal-oriented at best make your job faster and improve your relationship. To land contracts, grants, promotions, partnerships, spouse, no amount of nice , smooth talking, positive thinking will have significant effects on management decision. The effect is minor at best
My comment was general and from personal experience, not directed to you. Why would I know or care what age you are, or your own issues with the SSH? Maybe there are "21-years old fresh graduates" reading this thread who could benefit from or relate to this? You are a prime example of someone needing to learn that not everything is about you.
jak, jak
Took a crack
At requesting
Classification -
Got one back
He couldn’t hack
But launched Ask Vox
Submission Time
With employment is not narcissism its sanity. Those that care about the garbage company that doesn't care about them are insane. The sane people just want to get their paycheck and go home, not make a company that will lay them off for the CEO to make a few more bucks and that has ZERO loyalty of any sort to its employees into their whole life.
I just had a delta at work heckle me for a work product at 4:30pm on Friday that had been stalled on my desk since Monday. Because it was in the back of my queue. He insisted, at an employee appreciation event, that it absolutely had to be done and hadn’t I seen it and I was holding everything up.
I stayed late to get it out, so he could give it to the customer over the weekend. The work product was good and I made my changes directly in the document. Thinking I’d done what he needed.
Fast forward to it’s Wednesday now, and I get an email about next steps that were totally different than the document I edited, only to find out he never sent the work product out. And when I responded “wtf- I thought it was a rush item that had to go out over the weekend” apparently he had been looking for more of a green light then me finishing it.
He came in to my office super sad and hurt at my “wtf email” because he felt was I was chastising him. And I was confused, explaining that “I thought your work product was great, needed minimal tweaks, and that you were sending it as soon as my edits were done because you had asked me to rush it and said it needed to be done immediately.”
I work for the org in an advisory capacity and am usually interfacing with the alpha and his bravos. And I overlooked the need to tell the Delta directly, via email, “I finished my edits. They were minimal. Great work, this is ready to send.” As soon as I finished the edits.
Now I know better, and will be conscious of sending a “good job and greenlit” email anytime I do end up interfacing with the deltas.
Sounds like you interfaced with the task as a delta would. You don't give details as to how to returned the finished product to him, so I assume you informed him you were done. Indeed with deltas and women, maybe with everybody it's quite helpful to send it off with positive remarks, and an indication that's it's ready.
Maybe-
He insisted I had to get it done right then. I said, “okay- I’ll stay late and won’t leave until it’s done.”
It was a shared document that I made my changes directly into. And I could see that he was in the document accepting changes from the top as I was wrapping up.
I thought that since he said it had to go out, I said I would stay to finish it, and he was accepting the changes- that it was obvious that once I got to the bottom my changes were done. And him accepting them meant he was moving forward with finalizing.
It don’t occur to me that I needed to say that I was done making changes, beyond “I won’t leave until I’m finished.”
"Get over yourself. Learn to at least respect the interests of others even if you can’t appreciate them. And above all, never imagine for one second that the intensity of your self-absorption escapes the notice of others."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This verse comes to mind.
Wounds from a sincere friend
are better than many kisses from an enemy. — Proverbs 27:6 NLT
The truth is seldom easy to hear, but always welcome.
Commenter: What about me?
SG: It is the entire point.
Commenter: What do you mean?
SG: I wouldn't be you.
Commenter: If you were me, how would you feel?
SG: Goodbye!
https://youtu.be/DYjl1GFrWD8?si=XLQVqUdty3UaM_7i
Every narcissist’s situation is unique along with all of their problems. They all need special attention and consideration. If you’re a woman you need to shut up and listen to their opinion masquerading as wisdom. Listening and learning is not in their wheelhouse.
Violins for women. Aisle 1.
Hey I have been messing around with Flux AI model and some of the images I’ve generated are hilarious when typing in gamma male or sigma male pictures. Vox what AI are you using?
Bing, which is Dall-E.
Now is that censored depending on what you put into the prompt? I pay for mine through Venice AI and I can create things that are not censored like Bing or Chat GPT.
Very much so. But the free version of Venice is even more censored than Bing. I get this even if I ask it to simply draw me a picture of a library.
"Safe Mode is enabled on free accounts. Upgrade to Venice Pro for access to uncensored image generation, character conversations, and advanced features."
Totally useless so far...
That’s the problem free always sucks but I have a lot of fun with it with the paid version. Maybe I should post pics with Venice on my substack in relation to topics covered here just for fun
I think AIEase.ai is the best among the free ones I've tried, when it comes to both quality and not censoring your prompts.
I am very fortunate to have had a few Alphas, and a Sigma as very close friends over the years.
One of the things that one of my Alpha buddies, in particular, regularly does is get me to stop focusing on the micro, and look at the macro. Every once in a while, when I get a little too one-track minded, I remind myself to just shoot the breeze with him, and realign my perspective.
It's incredibly refreshing to have someone point out your navel-gazing, and set you on the right track.
Well said
Beyond only talking about anything in relation to themselves, narcissistic deltas talk about everything as being an issue for them. This problem, that problem, this completely normal thing that has been happening since the beginning of time is a problem and especially so for him. Everything is a problem for them and dammit they want someone to hear them bitch.
God bless the ones who have internalized the saying, "I could complain but nobody would listen." I find they're the happy deltas. Without constant lament, they notice a lot more pleasantness in the world.
Practicing Gratitude and thanking God for everything Good helps to mitigate that too.
I'm getting PTSD style flashbacks of a few coworkers rn.
Do national cultures have a dominant SSH archetype?
Here in Germany the most common sentence begins:
"Das Problem ist .. "
A nation dominated by automotive engineers?
Maybe Vox will comment, but shooting from the hip I'd say numerically speaking, any nation would presumably have more deltas than anything, but the sort of national attitude/demeanor might be something different.
E.g., I'm sure Israel has more deltas than anything else just like any other nation. But the Ira character/attitude that dominates their culture and international relations (sabotaging everyone, always the victim, etc.) is clearly gamma.
In one sense I think it's tangential or second-order to an individual's SSH pattern, but in another sense stereotypes are real and Indians really are reliably creepy as shit.
A fav saying: "Complaining doesn't do any good."
Readers like the one our host mentioned in the article kind of remind me of obese people who want to lose weight, but without exercise and a calorie deficit.
Just take the pill / jab / etc and all the symptoms of your lazy excessive eating will magically disappear.
Until you die of it.
And dying from it wont dissuade them.
I just had the most intense altercation with a guy on my work site I've ever had in my life. I'm certain he was a full blown narcissist or smoking crack. Possibly both.
I worked with him three hours and had a full on mental break down. Left me questioning every aspect of my life.
Every task was a constant battle for control and in my confusion I caused an Isolation breach (sackable offence). I had no choice but to talk to HR about it. All I said was, "Dan and I had an argument, we can't work together". They called him in and before the conversation even began he was accusing me of death staring him, then he told them about the Isolation breach and just started attacking me with everything he had.
I ended up getting sacked. He still works there. I've never felt sowntally tortured in my life.
He managed to control the whole room. manipulated everybody.
An object lesson in staying focused on the mission first and foremost. You're probably better off being out of that situation, but you shouldn't have gotten emotionally engaged to the point of actually screwing up your work.
Are you doing your job or are you being your job?
I don't understand why the fellow couldn't just read your post and reason from it what he should do without bothering to ask you. It's clear enough. But I guess deltas/gammas need direction? If so, it's an understandable, if contemptible, kind of narcissism. Poor guys can't figure things out for themselves.
Like everyone, they like to talk about themselves. Unlike most women and higher-status men, they don't often find people willing to listen to them talk about themselves.
Imagine the women are like your children, or what your future children would be. You do the things FOR THEIR BENEFIT. You go to the parks FOR THEM. You do the other things FOR THEM. But, also, you balance it with a mindset of asking women to join you. If you're doing it right, you're asking women to join you in a lifestyle that they match up with you - because the women simply fits in your life. So, you're doing things you enjoy as well, and are not too much out of the way.
As in Vox's example - he's doing cardio he doesn't need, but he's already in the gym. Not out of his way, not something he doesn't enjoy, they fit into his life, him into theirs.
How hard is this people? You have to become, literally, the type of spouse that the man or woman that you want to marry, would actually marry! That means you have to think, and put yourself in their shoes, for at least a little while.
If you want to marry a traditional type of woman, you have to be a traditional type of man. You have to do those types of things - have a job, stabile, not do crazy things, put yourself out there as one, be in the situations where SHE CAN SEE YOU DOING THOSE THINGS, and then attract her as DOING THOSE THINGS.
If you want a gym bunny, you have to be attractive. You have to go to the gym, be in shape, do the lifestyle things of that - the health, the food, the whole shebang. You then have to, as Vox says, PUT YOURSELF WHERE SHE'LL SEE YOU DOING THOSE THINGS. And ATTRACT AND SPEAK TO HER doing those thing.
If you want to, for some stupid reason, attract some bar wench or theatre girl, the same things would apply. You go to the bars, you do the things. Or the theatre.
People seem to imagine that they can just go to the bar or something, and meet the Church girl. No, that's where you meet the bar girl.
You meet the park girl at the park
The gym girl at the gym
The Church girl at Church.
And, if you're being a full, legit human being while doing things at these locations - you'll meet people. You'll sympathize/empathize with them. You'll fall into groups there, and can develop some social credit there that will place you in a hierarchy that she can see and judge you on.
And if you, being you, don't match up your lifestyle to what she expects - then that disconnect will be enough to drive away many women. It will GET the attention of many, so you'll stand out at least. But due to women's in/out grouping, and the average delta's complete inability to understand how to navigate social dynamics - this attention is almost always completely negative.
B-but if you change your life to accommodate women you are SIMPING! Real men just do their own thing! My based and trad anime pillow makes no demands of me whatsoever!
Lol.
I remember the manosphere days of old like that. The people that just wanted to get laid, or didn't understand being human. Where meeting women was spreadsheets and numbers, rather than real human beings interacting with each other
There's two type of anime fans. The ones with waifu posters they worship, and the ones with Jojo Pillarmen posters they aspire to become.
Very nicely said. I heard it called 'reverse goal setting' recently which would phrase it like this: "See that girl over there? What kind of guy do you think she's with? Ok, what would that guy be doing for his diet/hobby/friday night/right now and why aren't you doing it too?"
This is the sort of advice I gave my son. Want a woman? Go where they are. Pick up a hobby where you can meet them - diving, hiking, dancing even. Become interesting, they'll be there. I remember back in the manosphere days where dudes would say they're going to an Orthodox church, or Catholic church to get a trad woman. Cracked me up. I've even seen it. Had one, a creepy one, show up at a men's club meeting at my parish, said he was in RCIA, and while he didn't say it outright, he was there to get the gurlz. An unfortunate ginger gamma. Never saw him after that. Guess it didn't work out.
Exactly. Be the man you see your future wife being with. Or a man on the journey to being that man is sufficient, provided you are ok with accepting a woman also working on herself