This may seem somewhat out there but this reminds me of the snobbery one would witness in certain music scenes like punk and metal the most notable. Everything that isnt in our obviously lower tier genre sucks balls and is gay or foo-foo.
Once somebody is invested in an identity it becomes almost heretical to go against it. I think SSH rank much like "class " is extremely difficult to change.
While certainly a cope, I think downplaying attractiveness could partly be an us vs. them mindset, "those are not our people etc." They could never get maintain, or relate to such a woman any more than someon who has driven sensible reliable sedans their whole life is prepared to get maintain and own an exotic super car. They know it and so does almost everyone else.
"If you find yourself inclined to nit-pick and find fault in the attributes of an attractive woman, or notice that you have an instinctive urge to dismiss and degrade observable female beauty appreciated by others, that’s an important piece of information about yourself that probably merits some self-reflection."
As an Omega, the reaction to a beautiful woman is one of self-loathing. She reminds me of how unattractive I am. The lyrics from Creep come to mind, but without any desire to have her if that makes sense. A pavlovian pain response.
So yeah. If a beautiful girl I've met comes up in conversation I don't want to talk about her. It's unpleasant to remember she exists.
What makes the SSH useful is the fractal nature of it. There have been times in my life I had high social status either as captain of a team or as a teacher in a church. Women, many of them attractive, were interested in me. My self-perception is not based in reality. But I still rejected them. Because it's not about them. I'm the one who's not enough.
One example of this was probably Isaac Newton. An attractive man with high social status who never married, though we can assume there were women interested in him. Either gay or Omega. It takes a great deal of social pressure for an Omega to marry, such as George Henry Thomas the civil war general who was close friends with Robert E Lee. Lee teased Thomas about being in his 30s and still single. So Thomas walked out and married the first single woman he met. She happened to be a Northerner which is likely a big reason he stayed with the Union.
Another example of an Omega being pressured into marriage is Moses. Poor guy helps some women at a well and their father makes them marry him. Typical Omega. Even tried to argue God out of sending him back to Egypt with one excuse after another until finally he just says, "Please, LORD, send someone else."
I understand the general dislike for gammas. But why does everyone seem to talk about deltas as if they are literally just a gamma with a serious job? Some of the most competent and masculine men I have ever known were delta and they didn’t worship their wives. I think they barely tolerated them most days.
No doubt, but we generally talk about Gammas at their worst and Sigmas at their best. There are bell curves on these types too. We should generally offer good and bad perspectives on each type. Deltas can be some of the most masculine and capable people alive. Women may not fawn over them but their children love and idolize them from the examples I’ve seen in real life. I’ve known a couple of Sigmas too, one doesn’t even know where his kids are (at least he didn’t 3 years ago). Deltas are personally what I think all men should strive to be as the baseline. That’s a personal take though.
"Deltas are personally what I think all men should strive to be as the baseline."
Are you new here? That's what even Vox says. They're the backbone of society and civilization.
But still good to point out their self-defeating behaviors for those capable of learning. It's not about becoming Alpha or Sigma, but you can improve your social behaviors and be more valuable to your group. Part of that is learning from the habits of socially successful (high rank) people, and what not to do from unsuccessful Deltas/Gammas.
Many examples from the latter since they volunteer to embarrass themselves.
I am new to the Substack. I did follow his original website (alpha game), but he doesn’t have a truly continuous body of work. Didn’t know that was his position and I stand corrected.
My friend's uncle got him a stripper-gram for his 18th birthday.
His girlfriend came up to me afterwards and asked what I thought of the show.
I must have been a bit weirded out by the whole thing because I started awkwardly going on about how the stripper wasn't that attractive and had a bit of a boy's ass.
She gave me a funny look and walked off.
I guess in hindsight, it's the kind of situation where you say it was pretty amusing leave it at that.
Many years ago I worked with an enormously fat man who behaved like this to women. From the middest of mid to Amazon stunners, no woman was up to his standards.
15 years later I heard he got busted for making CP. I'm sure it's a total coincidence.
I remember coping in my single days. The top 10% or so of ladies wouldnt flirt with me, though most of the rest would. I just chalked it up to pretty women being uppity or unpleasant, though it was obviously just refusing to settle for a lower status man.
This post reminds me in inverse of what one of my old, 60+ year old alpha boss said to me about a young 5 out of 10 female employee. When we walked past her out of earshot he said, “I bet you she has a hairy snatch.” He never laughed and never smiled after saying it. He just went on with his business.
Gammas don't select for beauty. If a Gamma is showing overt interest in a woman, odds are he figures her an optimal combination of attractive and controllable. The confidence that an obviously attractive woman possesses is a natural deterrent for Gammas. Of course they have to rationalize why they don't go for them, so they engage in petty disqualifying.
This is one of those I didn't know I didn't know moments. It never occurred to me low ranking men rate women's attractiveness differently from other men.
If low ranking men see women in a different way, then what does this mean for all other aspects of their decision making (and the rationalisation thereof)?
Hmm so interesting. What tends to happen if the woman is slightly more attractive than the man? This has been the striking thought I get everytime I've been to San Diego. Is it just a supply demand issue in some areas?
Slightly OT, but I’m curious. Have any men here ever been straight up *approached* by a 9 or a 10? I never have, although I’ve gotten hints from them.
I’ve been approached by women in the 6-8 range. 5 and below usually self-select themselves out of my league, unless they’re drunk and muster up the courage.
Since I’m likely not Alpha, I’m curious if any Alphas or others have unique experiences with the apparent coyness (or not) of the hottest babes.
Women are funny creatures and have far more divergent tastes than men. SSH aside, a particular 5/6 might not like the look of you whereas a particular 7/8 might think you’re hot stuff. I wish I had figured this out earlier in life.
I worked with this gorgeous blonde 9. She was a few years younger and a bit on the quiet side but a definite head turner. Every time I spoke to her she gave me a vibe and she would smile at me shyly whenever we passed in the corridor. But I always wrote it off as an impossibility but I’m now sure she had a massive crush on me. In truth I was too frightened to believe it was possible, whether it was true or not.
Women's attraction to men is based way more on the man's actions than his looks. He has to be a certain level of good looking, but the whole underwear model thing is overrated. A lot of really good looking men come across as self absorbed and/or gay,if they're too groomed. Once a man has reached a certain level of handsome, the rest of his attractiveness is based more on capability, emotional control, and ability to provide.
My sister was a 9 and she said that virtually no men would approach her. She is also above average height which further narrowed the range of suitors.
This came up in conversation years ago after a succession of relationship failures following a familiar pattern (infidelity by her partner). She had two longer term relationships in her early-mid 20s with men who both cheated on her and treated her quite badly.
She eventually settled with a successful Chad looking Delta who she met at her rowing club.
Not often though. It's only an assumption, which can be totally off, so maybe a female 9 or 10 could confirm or deny it.
I guess that the most attractive women do not get approached as much as you think, because most men do not even see them or instinctively know they would just waste their time approaching them. So they have to take the first step more often than a 6 or 7 would, when they see a suitable mate. The potential dating pool of a 9 or 10 ist much smaller than that of a 6. So in my opinion the 9s and 10s would have to do a little work themselves every now and then when they see someone they are interested in.
Yes. Women are everywhere. They start conversations with you. If she's hot, you start talking with her, because look at her. It's hard not to. If she doesn't like you, or stops talking with you, she's slow or have poor taste. When people whose name you don't know, when they remind you of interesting things you've done and said, everyone knows who is attractive.
Yes, for instance the Mrs., who modelled professionally from jr. through college. Though we met after college.
Many of the most attractive women live, from a male perspective, a surreal life and nothing anyone says to them is/seems real to them. Women -- even friends -- try to sabotage them in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Men are all over the map -- weird ones worship them from afar, if they aren't actually stalking them; bravos and deltas sometimes won't even talk to them out of fear/lack of confidence; alphas that do talk to them may "play games" (at least they may see it as such).
As a man, at least, you have much more straightforward interactions with other men.
Isn't this like asking if you have been approached by Hedge Funds, because you're not a billionaire and want to know if they approach billionaires to get investment?
The part about the most sound relationships being where the woman is slightly less attractive is definitely best from my personal experience. When she is more attractive, she and everyone else knows it, and other competing men will attempt to swipe her away and she will tend to allow them to do so. Hypergamy and all that. Personally, I dated a 9 for about 4 years. Everything was fine for awhile as there was no one around who she would rather have. Men in our social peripheral constantly tried and failed while I was with her and I didnt even care. It was comical because I was very secure with myself and she was basically obsessed with me. So much so she was constantly suspect of other women and she really did at that time have the right to be suspicious. But then as we got older, she started getting attention online from much wealthier and much more naturally physically attractive men than me and well lets just say it didnt take long. Shortly after we broke it off she ended up on a plane to California living with a what looked like a model from mens clothing company. It was a bit of a rock to my boat and I could tell all the men who tried and failed at taking her celebrated my loss of what they had said several times was "the hottest girl they had ever seen." I realized life is much simpler when I lower my sights a bit and the women are much more faithful, and I no longer have to deal with random dudes trying to befriend me because the perceived social status that comes along with dating "the hottest girl theyve ever seen." while fantasizing and awaiting their opportunity to make a move. Having to deal with envious men and the inevitable social drama that comes with dating above your own level is something that was fun in younger years but not a stable life for marriage and children.
One comment here mentioned the Arkhaven reddit, and webtoons where they found Hypergamouse.
🐌 WOW the webtoons site is crazy slow, not even just compared to Arkhaven but versus really any modern graphics-serving website.
Multiple seconds to load even the Comments -- just now 6 seconds on wifi! 🤦♂️
https://m.webtoons.com/en/canvas/hypergamouse/disqualified/viewer?title_no=423082&episode_no=30
Compared to virtually instant https://www.arkhaven.com/comics/comedy/hypergamouse/30-disqualified 👏
I just assumed I can't tell/see beauty right. A wire crossed in my brain.
This may seem somewhat out there but this reminds me of the snobbery one would witness in certain music scenes like punk and metal the most notable. Everything that isnt in our obviously lower tier genre sucks balls and is gay or foo-foo.
Once somebody is invested in an identity it becomes almost heretical to go against it. I think SSH rank much like "class " is extremely difficult to change.
While certainly a cope, I think downplaying attractiveness could partly be an us vs. them mindset, "those are not our people etc." They could never get maintain, or relate to such a woman any more than someon who has driven sensible reliable sedans their whole life is prepared to get maintain and own an exotic super car. They know it and so does almost everyone else.
"If you find yourself inclined to nit-pick and find fault in the attributes of an attractive woman, or notice that you have an instinctive urge to dismiss and degrade observable female beauty appreciated by others, that’s an important piece of information about yourself that probably merits some self-reflection."
As an Omega, the reaction to a beautiful woman is one of self-loathing. She reminds me of how unattractive I am. The lyrics from Creep come to mind, but without any desire to have her if that makes sense. A pavlovian pain response.
So yeah. If a beautiful girl I've met comes up in conversation I don't want to talk about her. It's unpleasant to remember she exists.
What makes the SSH useful is the fractal nature of it. There have been times in my life I had high social status either as captain of a team or as a teacher in a church. Women, many of them attractive, were interested in me. My self-perception is not based in reality. But I still rejected them. Because it's not about them. I'm the one who's not enough.
One example of this was probably Isaac Newton. An attractive man with high social status who never married, though we can assume there were women interested in him. Either gay or Omega. It takes a great deal of social pressure for an Omega to marry, such as George Henry Thomas the civil war general who was close friends with Robert E Lee. Lee teased Thomas about being in his 30s and still single. So Thomas walked out and married the first single woman he met. She happened to be a Northerner which is likely a big reason he stayed with the Union.
Another example of an Omega being pressured into marriage is Moses. Poor guy helps some women at a well and their father makes them marry him. Typical Omega. Even tried to argue God out of sending him back to Egypt with one excuse after another until finally he just says, "Please, LORD, send someone else."
I understand the general dislike for gammas. But why does everyone seem to talk about deltas as if they are literally just a gamma with a serious job? Some of the most competent and masculine men I have ever known were delta and they didn’t worship their wives. I think they barely tolerated them most days.
Your perception is false and you’re over generalizing
The majority of men are Delta, and that means a bell curve of behavior.
Low to average Deltas have adopted a lot of conflict-avoidant and feminine behavior no thanks to the current Western culture.
Your local hierarchy may fare much better due to isolation from that, but the general behaviors are what they are.
No doubt, but we generally talk about Gammas at their worst and Sigmas at their best. There are bell curves on these types too. We should generally offer good and bad perspectives on each type. Deltas can be some of the most masculine and capable people alive. Women may not fawn over them but their children love and idolize them from the examples I’ve seen in real life. I’ve known a couple of Sigmas too, one doesn’t even know where his kids are (at least he didn’t 3 years ago). Deltas are personally what I think all men should strive to be as the baseline. That’s a personal take though.
We?
"Deltas are personally what I think all men should strive to be as the baseline."
Are you new here? That's what even Vox says. They're the backbone of society and civilization.
But still good to point out their self-defeating behaviors for those capable of learning. It's not about becoming Alpha or Sigma, but you can improve your social behaviors and be more valuable to your group. Part of that is learning from the habits of socially successful (high rank) people, and what not to do from unsuccessful Deltas/Gammas.
Many examples from the latter since they volunteer to embarrass themselves.
I am new to the Substack. I did follow his original website (alpha game), but he doesn’t have a truly continuous body of work. Didn’t know that was his position and I stand corrected.
Cuz Alpha/Sigma good, everything else is pissed on bread crumbs binary thinking.
An aside, and apologies for not knowing if this was written before here… where does smell/odor fit into your rating scale?
Or is it simply kept separate for clarity…
How many who stink? One. How many who don’t smell good? A few.
Yet there are some middlin beauties who smell amazing.
Yeah, well, guess we disagree there! Best wishes
My friend's uncle got him a stripper-gram for his 18th birthday.
His girlfriend came up to me afterwards and asked what I thought of the show.
I must have been a bit weirded out by the whole thing because I started awkwardly going on about how the stripper wasn't that attractive and had a bit of a boy's ass.
She gave me a funny look and walked off.
I guess in hindsight, it's the kind of situation where you say it was pretty amusing leave it at that.
Many years ago I worked with an enormously fat man who behaved like this to women. From the middest of mid to Amazon stunners, no woman was up to his standards.
15 years later I heard he got busted for making CP. I'm sure it's a total coincidence.
I remember coping in my single days. The top 10% or so of ladies wouldnt flirt with me, though most of the rest would. I just chalked it up to pretty women being uppity or unpleasant, though it was obviously just refusing to settle for a lower status man.
I’m willing to bet anything that “most of the rest” did in fact not flirt with you. #gamma
If you tell a pretty woman she is attractive and she smiles and giggles at you, she’s into it. If she has a bad look, that means she’s not interested.
This post reminds me in inverse of what one of my old, 60+ year old alpha boss said to me about a young 5 out of 10 female employee. When we walked past her out of earshot he said, “I bet you she has a hairy snatch.” He never laughed and never smiled after saying it. He just went on with his business.
Gammas don't select for beauty. If a Gamma is showing overt interest in a woman, odds are he figures her an optimal combination of attractive and controllable. The confidence that an obviously attractive woman possesses is a natural deterrent for Gammas. Of course they have to rationalize why they don't go for them, so they engage in petty disqualifying.
Don't forget to like this post guys, or that Dutch dude will start complaining about the "likes-comments-ratio" again.
This is one of those I didn't know I didn't know moments. It never occurred to me low ranking men rate women's attractiveness differently from other men.
If low ranking men see women in a different way, then what does this mean for all other aspects of their decision making (and the rationalisation thereof)?
A revelatory post.
Hmm so interesting. What tends to happen if the woman is slightly more attractive than the man? This has been the striking thought I get everytime I've been to San Diego. Is it just a supply demand issue in some areas?
Basically. At the extremes, consider Russia, where the woman is usually significantly more attractive; or Britain, where the man tends to be.
Slightly OT, but I’m curious. Have any men here ever been straight up *approached* by a 9 or a 10? I never have, although I’ve gotten hints from them.
I’ve been approached by women in the 6-8 range. 5 and below usually self-select themselves out of my league, unless they’re drunk and muster up the courage.
Since I’m likely not Alpha, I’m curious if any Alphas or others have unique experiences with the apparent coyness (or not) of the hottest babes.
Women are funny creatures and have far more divergent tastes than men. SSH aside, a particular 5/6 might not like the look of you whereas a particular 7/8 might think you’re hot stuff. I wish I had figured this out earlier in life.
I worked with this gorgeous blonde 9. She was a few years younger and a bit on the quiet side but a definite head turner. Every time I spoke to her she gave me a vibe and she would smile at me shyly whenever we passed in the corridor. But I always wrote it off as an impossibility but I’m now sure she had a massive crush on me. In truth I was too frightened to believe it was possible, whether it was true or not.
Women's attraction to men is based way more on the man's actions than his looks. He has to be a certain level of good looking, but the whole underwear model thing is overrated. A lot of really good looking men come across as self absorbed and/or gay,if they're too groomed. Once a man has reached a certain level of handsome, the rest of his attractiveness is based more on capability, emotional control, and ability to provide.
Yes.
My sister was a 9 and she said that virtually no men would approach her. She is also above average height which further narrowed the range of suitors.
This came up in conversation years ago after a succession of relationship failures following a familiar pattern (infidelity by her partner). She had two longer term relationships in her early-mid 20s with men who both cheated on her and treated her quite badly.
She eventually settled with a successful Chad looking Delta who she met at her rowing club.
Yes.
Not often though. It's only an assumption, which can be totally off, so maybe a female 9 or 10 could confirm or deny it.
I guess that the most attractive women do not get approached as much as you think, because most men do not even see them or instinctively know they would just waste their time approaching them. So they have to take the first step more often than a 6 or 7 would, when they see a suitable mate. The potential dating pool of a 9 or 10 ist much smaller than that of a 6. So in my opinion the 9s and 10s would have to do a little work themselves every now and then when they see someone they are interested in.
Yes. Women are everywhere. They start conversations with you. If she's hot, you start talking with her, because look at her. It's hard not to. If she doesn't like you, or stops talking with you, she's slow or have poor taste. When people whose name you don't know, when they remind you of interesting things you've done and said, everyone knows who is attractive.
Yes, for instance the Mrs., who modelled professionally from jr. through college. Though we met after college.
Many of the most attractive women live, from a male perspective, a surreal life and nothing anyone says to them is/seems real to them. Women -- even friends -- try to sabotage them in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Men are all over the map -- weird ones worship them from afar, if they aren't actually stalking them; bravos and deltas sometimes won't even talk to them out of fear/lack of confidence; alphas that do talk to them may "play games" (at least they may see it as such).
As a man, at least, you have much more straightforward interactions with other men.
Yep
Isn't this like asking if you have been approached by Hedge Funds, because you're not a billionaire and want to know if they approach billionaires to get investment?
I like the analogy, but women don’t behave like hedge fund managers, do they?
Sure they do. They manage their assets, cut their losses ruthlessly, and get unofficial tax breaks from the government.
Yes.
The part about the most sound relationships being where the woman is slightly less attractive is definitely best from my personal experience. When she is more attractive, she and everyone else knows it, and other competing men will attempt to swipe her away and she will tend to allow them to do so. Hypergamy and all that. Personally, I dated a 9 for about 4 years. Everything was fine for awhile as there was no one around who she would rather have. Men in our social peripheral constantly tried and failed while I was with her and I didnt even care. It was comical because I was very secure with myself and she was basically obsessed with me. So much so she was constantly suspect of other women and she really did at that time have the right to be suspicious. But then as we got older, she started getting attention online from much wealthier and much more naturally physically attractive men than me and well lets just say it didnt take long. Shortly after we broke it off she ended up on a plane to California living with a what looked like a model from mens clothing company. It was a bit of a rock to my boat and I could tell all the men who tried and failed at taking her celebrated my loss of what they had said several times was "the hottest girl they had ever seen." I realized life is much simpler when I lower my sights a bit and the women are much more faithful, and I no longer have to deal with random dudes trying to befriend me because the perceived social status that comes along with dating "the hottest girl theyve ever seen." while fantasizing and awaiting their opportunity to make a move. Having to deal with envious men and the inevitable social drama that comes with dating above your own level is something that was fun in younger years but not a stable life for marriage and children.