I think I'd respect Vox a lot more if I knew that he'd ever held his motor-cunt wife like a bowling ball. I'm just stuck with the idea of him being the low-rent family friendly Vin Diesel too-too wearing cuck husband who treats her with a wide berth.
Another interesting observance in animals is how the dominate animal will affect the behavior of others.
This round of raising 11 pigs to slaughter weight, the dominate pig was more aggressive than usual. Especially at feeding time, and not just with that pig picking fights, but with all of them fighting and biting at each other for food. Not enjoying that kind of behavior, she was flagged as the first to go as we sold them off. Immediately feeding time was calmer, there were less fights between pigs, and everyone got shares they should.
It would be interesting to see actual studies on how such hierarchies affect behavior between animal groups.
I don’t know. You’re right though that this one was female, I think last batch it was a male. Though all the males I keep are castrated, so that probably makes a difference too.
Anyways, I just thought it was interesting in light of the study. For instance, what would happen moving the dominate mice between spaces? What kind of change would be seen?
Dominance in the animal world is a life-or-death matter, as is knowing one's place in the hierarchy. I learned that from Kipling's "The Jungle Book", and the relevance to human society was obvious to the child I then was.
The human antipathy to the SSH could only have come about recently after a generation or two of word-salad and "perception IS reality" nonsense.
No one disagrees. The point is that those thoughts, behaviors, and actions, can be observed and even predicted in mice, and possibly applied to humans as well.
Would be nice if some bright soul out there would formulate some sort of "ranked hierarchical system" for, at least, male human behavior in a socio-sexual marketplace, as humans tend to form into, much like mice. They could call it a Supreme Societal Hierarchy or something like that. Oh well, a man can dream I suppose.
Of course. Empirical evidence always drags behind anecdotal evidence. One is observation noticed and one is observation noted.
To that end, the difference between "empathy" and "sympathy" can likely be relevant to animals. Ever since Vox said, females have no empathy, I have considered this notion with my dogs. It is well known amongst protection dog trainers that female dogs will family/people and male dogs will protect property. I have observed that my male dog will consistently observe potential threats and scan for outsiders. My female dog is only upset when I am upset. BUT she has learned to scan and even then she is mostly upset when my male is upset or she thinks someone else should be upset. My male Keys me into the landscape. My female reminds me vigilant when food/water is empty. And other things she notes as important. She demands attention when I pet the male. The male understands it's not his turn.
Of course, as a woman, this is potentially damning evidence that my male dog is more empathetic than I am capable of, but it does convince me that sympathy applied with a reasonably effective prediction of pattern recognition can be a decent substitute for empathy.
Speaking as a Gamma with zero true empathy: no, sympathy is never a substitute for empathy. It can only ever be an illusion, a polite falsehood, or a manipulation, if attempting to replace empathy. That said, society itself is built on an enormous amount of such polite falsehoods. Refusing the politeness makes one a hermit, an outcast. I do not recommend, personally.
I think my dog is a Delta because I like him. I mean, graciously you missed the whole point, but I do have more insight into Gamma mindsets. And data is data.
Even in the "wild" it is amazing to see how subservient dogs are walking past one another. We have a very tiny teacup poodle who obviously thinks his shit dont stink. It is very interesting watching him as we walk past dogs on a walk and see which ones he reacts to and which ones he completely and deliberately ignores. Generally there is no pattern based on the dog type or size but I started trying to guess how he will react begore we encounter each dog and you can kind of spot it from how they carry themselves. Dogs definitely have their own SSH. I think my dog is a gamma.
I was thinking on a similar line as I read the excerpt in the post. Just go watch dogs in a dog park. My Husky/Belgian Malinois mix is pretty cheerful and happy to play with anyone who comes in, unless the other dog is just being obnoxious. So she ignores it and goes about her business until she feels like playing. Then it’s happy barking and play-bowing. She doesn’t start anything, but she ALWAYS finishes it; never backs down from a tangle, and then shakes herself and moves on to the next playmate. She’s always the high-status one.
My dog is the same way, I think he’s a Bravo or Alpha. He’s always checking to see who enters the park and greets them. Wish he wasn’t fixed before I got him, he has fantastic genetics.
Check out the "jolly egg" dog toy. endless fun. The police were called a few times because people thought all the noise my GSD made was from a dog fight, haha!
I think I'd respect Vox a lot more if I knew that he'd ever held his motor-cunt wife like a bowling ball. I'm just stuck with the idea of him being the low-rent family friendly Vin Diesel too-too wearing cuck husband who treats her with a wide berth.
Another interesting observance in animals is how the dominate animal will affect the behavior of others.
This round of raising 11 pigs to slaughter weight, the dominate pig was more aggressive than usual. Especially at feeding time, and not just with that pig picking fights, but with all of them fighting and biting at each other for food. Not enjoying that kind of behavior, she was flagged as the first to go as we sold them off. Immediately feeding time was calmer, there were less fights between pigs, and everyone got shares they should.
It would be interesting to see actual studies on how such hierarchies affect behavior between animal groups.
Dominant female pig creates a vicious group dynamic. Would it be better with a male pig in charge?
I don’t know. You’re right though that this one was female, I think last batch it was a male. Though all the males I keep are castrated, so that probably makes a difference too.
Anyways, I just thought it was interesting in light of the study. For instance, what would happen moving the dominate mice between spaces? What kind of change would be seen?
I wonder if the SSH can be observed in plants as well
Dominance in the animal world is a life-or-death matter, as is knowing one's place in the hierarchy. I learned that from Kipling's "The Jungle Book", and the relevance to human society was obvious to the child I then was.
The human antipathy to the SSH could only have come about recently after a generation or two of word-salad and "perception IS reality" nonsense.
For sure I have witnessed it in horses, not only among dogs. In fact, the key to dominating horses is to present yourself as the alpha.
what about the mouse poets and shamans did the scientist account for the highly intelligent secret leaders ?
that's Doof
Just watching a flock of chickens with their rooster can reveal some universal ssh behaviours.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/USo2tdcWitk
Hypergamouse proved this long ago.
Yeah, I believe your thoughts, heart and actions will shape the way you appear
No one disagrees. The point is that those thoughts, behaviors, and actions, can be observed and even predicted in mice, and possibly applied to humans as well.
Would be nice if some bright soul out there would formulate some sort of "ranked hierarchical system" for, at least, male human behavior in a socio-sexual marketplace, as humans tend to form into, much like mice. They could call it a Supreme Societal Hierarchy or something like that. Oh well, a man can dream I suppose.
Terrifying for them. Animals clearly disprove blank slate-ism.
A fat low energy rat is unlikable.
Of course. Empirical evidence always drags behind anecdotal evidence. One is observation noticed and one is observation noted.
To that end, the difference between "empathy" and "sympathy" can likely be relevant to animals. Ever since Vox said, females have no empathy, I have considered this notion with my dogs. It is well known amongst protection dog trainers that female dogs will family/people and male dogs will protect property. I have observed that my male dog will consistently observe potential threats and scan for outsiders. My female dog is only upset when I am upset. BUT she has learned to scan and even then she is mostly upset when my male is upset or she thinks someone else should be upset. My male Keys me into the landscape. My female reminds me vigilant when food/water is empty. And other things she notes as important. She demands attention when I pet the male. The male understands it's not his turn.
Of course, as a woman, this is potentially damning evidence that my male dog is more empathetic than I am capable of, but it does convince me that sympathy applied with a reasonably effective prediction of pattern recognition can be a decent substitute for empathy.
Speaking as a Gamma with zero true empathy: no, sympathy is never a substitute for empathy. It can only ever be an illusion, a polite falsehood, or a manipulation, if attempting to replace empathy. That said, society itself is built on an enormous amount of such polite falsehoods. Refusing the politeness makes one a hermit, an outcast. I do not recommend, personally.
"society itself is built on an enormous amount of such polite falsehoods"
Those are what we call Good Manners and are a social lubricant to help us get along even when we fail to empathize with each other.
Let your true religion give life to the polite words and transform it into genuine care for the people we ought to love.
Spot on.
Clearly.
I think my dog is a Delta because I like him. I mean, graciously you missed the whole point, but I do have more insight into Gamma mindsets. And data is data.
I apologize for the affront.
Delta Dog sounds awesome. I've known Alpha dogs, they're a lot to handle. Give me a Delta any day of the week.
Anyone who has spent much time working with animals who form social groups is already aware of this, even if they don’t call it the SSH.
Look at Jack London’s stories about sled dogs. The SSH is there in both the dogs and the men.
Pecking order in chickens...
White Fang - Sigma lone-wolf-dog.
Even in the "wild" it is amazing to see how subservient dogs are walking past one another. We have a very tiny teacup poodle who obviously thinks his shit dont stink. It is very interesting watching him as we walk past dogs on a walk and see which ones he reacts to and which ones he completely and deliberately ignores. Generally there is no pattern based on the dog type or size but I started trying to guess how he will react begore we encounter each dog and you can kind of spot it from how they carry themselves. Dogs definitely have their own SSH. I think my dog is a gamma.
I am sure the Kurgan's dog is sigma.
I was thinking on a similar line as I read the excerpt in the post. Just go watch dogs in a dog park. My Husky/Belgian Malinois mix is pretty cheerful and happy to play with anyone who comes in, unless the other dog is just being obnoxious. So she ignores it and goes about her business until she feels like playing. Then it’s happy barking and play-bowing. She doesn’t start anything, but she ALWAYS finishes it; never backs down from a tangle, and then shakes herself and moves on to the next playmate. She’s always the high-status one.
My dog is the same way, I think he’s a Bravo or Alpha. He’s always checking to see who enters the park and greets them. Wish he wasn’t fixed before I got him, he has fantastic genetics.
husky/Belgian malinois does she have infinite stamina ?
Might as well. It’s tough to wear her out.
Check out the "jolly egg" dog toy. endless fun. The police were called a few times because people thought all the noise my GSD made was from a dog fight, haha!
I will! Thanks for the suggestion. She needs something like that.
Fascinating. One can identify MouseChad by looks, and MouseChad has similar traits and behaviors across even different populations.
There are going to be a lot of Gamma excuses as to why this couldn't possibly apply to humans, of course.
You're talking about the anthromorphic mouse art?
I was kind of hoping the scientific study had a series of photographs for RL mouse physiognomy. /nerd
the gamma mouse looks like he eats Impossible Cheese
"I can't believe it's not real cheese!"