Vox is almost certainly an INTJ. Sigmas are rare. He has few sigma males to extract data from. His own INTJ traits are therefore likely to influence his attempts at describing sigma male traits.
Example: It wouldn't surprise me if the advice he posted to sigma-wives would work on most husbands with an INTJ or similar MBTI type.
Someone with an INTJ personality type most likely acts like a gamma, but could be a delta. You don't know, because Myer-Briggs is an introspective classification, not an observable classification. Aka, a person's Myer-Briggs classification fails to predict their behavior.
>Aka, a person's Myer-Briggs classification fails to predict their behavior.
Personally, I use both the MBTI and the SSH to predict other people's behavior, and I have more success with the MBTI than I have with the SSH.
For binary thinkers: I'm not saying that the SSH is useless, only that the combination of my current non-online MBTI skills, my current non-online SSH skills, and the predictions I care about in real life makes the MBTI superior for my use.
My husband is definitionally a sigma. He was cool in high school, but unbothered by its hierarchy. On his mom’s side, all of the women are over 6 foot and all played D1 basketball, some even being original WNBA draft picks. Him and his brother (an alpha) were both naturals at the sport. He played his whole life and could have easily gone to at least college for it. But one day in high school, he just said, “eh, this is dumb. I’m not doing this anymore.” And quit. He literally didn’t think about it anymore. Whatever. Instead, he focused his time on studying theology and the secrets of the universe. He is one of the smartest people I have ever met, and one thing to note about him is that he is very decisive. He never asks for advice, he thinks through a decision rationally and very quickly, even life altering ones, and just does it. He doesn’t need any input from anyone else. I quite like this about him and find us very similar in that way, which drew me to him originally. We got married after two months of dating after simply making a joke about getting married the next week. I made the joke, and he said, “Yeah, what if we just did that?” And we did. Best decision we ever made. After about a year of marriage so far, it is worth noting that with him, the highs are really high and the lows are really low. I think the thing I struggle with the most is not taking it as a personal rejection when he gets into an esoteric headspace and needs space to think for long periods of time. He isn’t rejecting me, he’s rejecting the world and how “fake and gay” everything is. This has really been the root of any struggles we have had, though few in number because we do get along incredibly well and enjoy each other’s company a great deal. He reads people very well and is always vindicated in his conclusions. They usually take about 30 seconds to form accurately. He understands how hierarchy works, and he simply doesn’t care. Even though in high school the cool guys accepted him and he joked around with them and enjoyed their company when he felt like it situationally, he never hung out with them outside of school. He never pursued them even though they pursued him, he literally didn’t care. He’s the kind of guy to fall off the face of the earth and reappear several years later and leave everybody asking, “what happened to that guy?” He had the same attitude towards the women at our school. Every higher status girl at our school liked him at one point or another, even going out of their ways to approach him, he literally just laughed. He found them all dull and brainless. He wasn’t going to settle for someone who didn’t stimulate his mind, as well as his eyes. Being at a small (Baptist) Christian school, theology was obviously a background thing that was discussed. As soon as he got into theology, he shed everything he’d ever learned and denied his entire Christian theological upbringing within months without second notice. He just cares about what is right and true, he couldn’t care less about consensus, which defying it in a small southern Baptist town is almost a death sentence. He’s completely unbothered. He is unbothered in the sense that he doesn’t care what others have to say because he is confident in what he believes is true, but he often grows annoyed at “how truly stupid people are.” He isn’t prideful, he’s right. One of his greatest frustrations with the world is how simply incapable everyone is at seeing truth outside of whatever system they are presented. They refuse. He can’t wake them up and he often times stops trying and isolates until he is ready to go back into the world again. This is the other struggle I find myself having at times. I am a very social person, I am very nice and bubbly, which he likes because he looks like he wants to kill everyone (but he’s really just a nice guy! Haha) But, I am more willing than him to exchange cultural niceties and enjoy small chat simply for the purpose of trying to understand how different kinds of people think and do life. He is not. He knows already. He thinks it’s stupid and a waste of his time. So, I often find myself a bit more isolated than I’d like to be which can be compounded a bit when he is in an isolationist and esoteric state of mind for a longer period. But all in all, I wouldn’t trade him for the world. Those two frustrations (which of course he knows because he’s reading this too, lol) are worth the struggle because I couldn’t see myself with anyone else. We have so much fun together. We stimulate each other. The deep emotional bond that we share is unlike anything else in the world. We truly have reached an understanding with one another and it is the greatest companionship I have ever known, or ever could know. I know he feels the same way even though he doesn’t like sharing how he feels all the time (it’s gay) lol. I truly trust his mind and heart and would follow him to the ends of the earth. I’d much rather be a shut in than deal with the frustrations of the world without him. He is the only person who gets them. Who gets me. Marrying him was the best decision of my life.
I think my father is a sigma. I’m not certain but he checks a lot of the boxes. Very handsome, very good with women. Even when he was over weight, attractive women were still flirting with him.
I’ve never seen him be anything other than great at anything he’s tried. Tons of interests. He’s a percussionist, he’s athletic, he’s smart and has been against the grain for as long as I’ve been alive.
To his detriment, he never liked being told what to do. He’s had a series of jobs that have been completely unrelated to each other.
He only likes the priests that go against the grain. He has cut off family because they proclaim to be good Catholics but are pro-abortion.
And no, never vaxxed.
As a young child I always felt super safe and taken care of because he was so confident and self-assured which was always backed up by him being good at everything. I’ve never met anyone like him but grew up thinking that a lot of other men must be like this too.
I think I’ve fully talked myself into being sure he’s a sigma..
One non-mRNA dose for minimal compliance with an org that was standing in the way of a mission of his. He figured he’d never had a vaxx reaction, and no one in his family who had gotten one already showed any reaction, and that he would be fine (unlike me and the kids who have a bad personal and family history), and he seems to have been correct on that front.
We had talked about it, and I pleaded with him not to. And he told me he would think about it. And I expected that there would be another conversation before he made a decision. But he went ahead and made his decision and never cycled back with me. I found out about it months later when he mentioned it to someone else casually, and then was surprised that I was mad he didn’t tell me beforehand or in the months since. And he was like “why are you mad? I considered what you said and told you I would think about it and then I thought about it and then I made my decision.”
It was one of three times we’ve had a serious throw down because I believed he was prioritizing his work in a way that seriously put the family at risk. He disagreed that there was a substantial risk, but agreed to not get any more and let me put fraudulent dates for two mRNA shots onto his vaccine card when the same organization decided the non-mRNA shot wasn’t adequate.
He’s also let me do all of the decision making about the kids’ vaccines, which has been none. And defended my decision making to his family.
A definite no ! He has said to me before that the one good thing about covid and the vaccines coming around is it showed you quickly who you can trust and who cracks under enough pressure.
I knew a probable Sigma for about 7 years, starting at age 15. He was in my homeschool group and was 16 at the time. He may have had some omega traits if that’s possible because he could be extremely weird to the point of it being a turn-off and yet somehow women were always flocking to him, fighting over him, etc.
When I first met him, my family was temporarily living in another state, so I got to know him online. I liked him because he understood and saw me better than others could and took things lightly when others would have made a fuss.
At the homeschool dances, other boys would be in groups, but the sigma would stand at the edge of the dance floor, leaning slightly forward intensely and talking to some girl for 1-2 hours. Then he would switch to another girl. Whereas the other boys were shy and nervous, this sigma always asked every girl he knew to dance at least once.
There were maybe four other girls in that homeschool group who liked him at the time. They went to the March for Life and fought over him. One girl manipulated him into being close with her, one girl called another a boyfriend thief, etc.
He got into a relationship with one of them that lasted for five years, and during that time he talked to me online on the side (not an emotional affair. He didn’t share much).
When they broke up, it took him only one or two weeks to get over her. He was very decisive and always acted quickly. Then he started going out with me. Going out with a sigma was emotionally satisfying in a way I have felt with almost no others. It felt like there was starlight in every cell of my body and like I was being whisked into a beautiful world separate from everyone else.
There’s so much more I could say, but I’ll stick to a few categories:
-Appearance: Very dark hair and eyes and physically attractive. Deep set eyes that looked dark and mysterious. He honestly looked exactly how you’d expect a sigma to look. He had an “evil villain from a movie” look and moved in ways that were mysterious and separate from everyone else. He walked very fast and always had to walk faster than everyone else.
-Intelligence: One of the most intelligent and high performing people I’ve met. Not much to say here.
-Weirdness and disregard of social norms: So you know how people say,“How are you?” “Good. How are you?” as a greeting? Well he decided to cut that first part of it off and greet people at work with just “Good, how are you?” up front. When he was 18 he started looking like an insane chicken for a while because he decided that shaving and cutting his hair were too boring, so he just… stopped. He was politically far right before being far right was cool.
-Independence: On date #4, he excused himself from the dance we were at to just sit outside under the stars on the railing of the steps and left me inside to talk and dance by myself. I always felt offended by how little he told others about me. Everyone else I knew at the time would share a lot about who they were dating. When he was dating the girl before me, he would get busy and not talk to her for days. His job had more independence than average. His comings and goings, his struggles were very private.
-Mysteriousness?: It usually takes a few interactions for me to get a sense of someone’s motivations, habits, and thought patterns, yet after seven years of knowing him, I could never crack his code. He would joke around constantly and even those closest to him had trouble knowing his real beliefs because they couldn’t tell if he was serious or kidding.
Anyway, I don’t think I ever fully got over him or found someone I liked better until I was 25. I’m 28 now and unmarried. There is another woman from our homeschool group who also liked him for years and is my same age. She is single, too. Maybe she was also a sigma widow…
You know our society isn't working well when even the attractive homeschool girls aren't getting married by age 28. I assume you are attractive because the sigma found you worthy of his attention. For your sake, I wish you could have fallen for a Bravo instead. You would be happily married with a couple kids by now.
Vox, thank you for including the ladies in the book. I have enjoyed and benefited from reading their experiences, observations, and general comments. Read them individually, not in a structured manner. Thank you and once again, thank you very much ladies, without you we wouldn’t exist. Deus Optimus Maximus Est.
My husband is a Sigma, which I realized when I read the words, “Everyone else is vaguely confused by them” and it explained about a hundred odd interactions in a second.
I met my husband on a missions campus, where he seemed to be perpetually sitting on the picnic table outside the dining room, playing his red guitar. He was more rugged than the pretty boys I usually liked, but I was fascinated by him. He said things that I had never heard anyone else say. What's more, he said them unapologetically, casually, like he didn't care if I agreed with him or not, and he was completely unphased by any disagreement that I had with his ideas. He would have an intelligent conversation if I wanted to understand what he meant, but he never tried to convince me and he was never intimidated by me. He also didn't seem to care about social norms; there was never any pressure when I was around him. He did what he wanted, and expected me to do the same. I hung out with him as often as I could, which wasn't hard when he was always on that picnic table. And yet everybody else knew him, too, because apparently he had gone to this place or that event or had danced with that girl or worked out with that guy... I couldn't keep track.
When I eventually moved to be with him, all the young women who I had never met before would constantly be gathering around me asking me questions about HIM. Even if he offended them, they would ask variations of, “why is he such a jerk?” They asked me one time if our relationship was “passionate”, and since we are both passionate people I answered in the affirmative, to which they all passed around glances and giggled with pleasure. It was very confusing being taken around by him in this new environment. He (so we, but I was not in the loop) would drop by events randomly, and stay for as along as he wanted. Sometimes we didn't even go all the way in, but just talked to someone in the entrance. Or we would be doing errands and he would have a friendly conversation with someone, and when we walked away I would ask, “who are they?”, and it would turn out that he was talking to a complete stranger.
He is tall and ruggedly handsome, with a big barrel chest and piercing hazel eyes that still make me stop in my tracks meekly after 15 years together. He is the most patient man I know, not because he always acts patient but because no one else would act that patient when people annoy them so much. He is the most generous man I know, not because he goes around handing things out but because no one else would value the utility of things so highly and still suffer them to be given away to people they think so little of. He is both severe and kind, because kindness is him making the effort to say the hard things that no one wants to say and no one wants to hear, but that need to be said – especially to me and to our children. He can also be one of the funniest, happiest, warmest people I've ever met, and at home he often is.
My husband works from home and, after an extended period of moving around a lot, has in our current town actively avoided forming any relationships or obligations outside the home. He reports to no one, hears from no one, and meets no one regularly. Within the home, he is happiest when he has no expectations or obligations, and he can emerge from his office whenever he wants for whatever he wants. Outside the home he regularly comes into contact with strangers, who treat him like an Alpha. The Deltas and Gammas spill their life stories and seek advice, and the women talk and smile and flip their hair until he finally leaves. He finds this annoying – especially the women – and I have to remind him, “They think you're an Alpha. They will talk to you until you let them go.”
The single thing I love the most about my husband is his character. His actions are entirely guided by what he believes to be right and wrong, and he will stick to that. This has often made things more difficult for us – sometimes very difficult, like when we ended up homeless with a newborn and $5 to our name – but I also have strong convictions and I know I could never have respected anyone else.
When my husband and I were dating, my Delta father told me, “If you marry him, your marriage will be stormier than most.” I remember thinking that anything less sounded boring. He was right... but so was I.
Honestly, nearly all of this reads like some superscaled psyop. There's never been such religious injection into these comment sections before that it all clearly seems unreal. This is the age of AI now, and so I must gradually phase out internet and all digital consumption and remain in true reality. Even the church pastor one seems like an ai rehash of the true pastor in Canada that stayed open in Covid.
Half of these read like a script of checkboxes on the idealization of what a "sigma" should be. Notice the idealized "alpha dad" and glorification of fleshly desires, none of the nuanced flaws of real men. And, ultimately, there's no foolproof way to verify if they're just random bot accounts using ai generated text or real people. Beware consensus forming from the new ai tools available. Real life will always be more than some opinion you read on some website somewhere especially when it concerns other people. Youtube comments are an example of this where the algorithm will start recommending you things and there's nonstop 10's of millions of english speaking people just getting out of a divorce and advising you to stay isolated.
Honestly turn to Christ and do not wonder after the beast and its image.
Another win for the predictive power of the SSH: Another gamma spamming this post with walls of text no-one will ever read after being explicitly told to do precisely the opposite.
This is the part where we respectfully but decisively ask you to either shut up or leave.
There has been plenty of glorification of fleshly desires in this Substack's comment section, especially when it was new. I don't see it in the comments of this post.
Superscaled psyop? That's a fun thought, I wonder who would be the honeypots here vs. the targets who are being kept from living their best lives? Or is it that our claims all represent an unrealistic ideal that no normal couple could hope to emulate, thus first elevating then dashing hopes of the poor masses who can never have what we have?
No, I'm mapping things out. Most of the people on substack exist in a subset of the digital world and much of it is above average intelligence people, generally european or caucasian phenotype, and usually dealing with some form of tech as part of their daily life. You will not find many pipefitters, mechanics, firemen, lawyers, doctors on here for example.
But this subset of men on substack are the most likely to be churners of the society being built right now since they mostly had a part in the shaping of current thought and the tech behind it.
On one hand you have Vox talking about the rarity of a "sigma". On the other hand all of you "women" have married one, have the presence of mind to be on the internet, somehow have the accident to come to know what a "sigma" is, somehow have tracked down the origin of the thought of a "sigma male" to Vox and this place and then post about it here.
It's a natural impulse of flesh to desire to have the best for itself or puff itself up as having the best, but do not be surprised at my skepticism.
Vox has 7000 subscribers here. There are 71 total comments so far. That’s a reasonable percentage of women who can speak of their Sigma men experiences as followers of this Substack.
I’ve been following Vox Day since his early days as a weekly columnist on WND 20+ years ago. I’ve bought most of his books.
The man is just asking for comments in order to finish his latest book.
I have my own experience I could share of a Sigma I spent a few weeks with in 2019 who was the most interesting person I’ve ever met.
What’s really bothering you, Will? That you want to be a Sigma, but you’re not one?
Anyone can amass a cult following. I'm witnessing to some Mormons right now trying to explain why Joseph Smith is a false prophet, but nary a true believer of him will hearken to truth.
In the advent of Protonmail where you can spam email addresses, then bot accounts with ai generated text here, there's simply too much to doubt, especially when contrasted with real life experience. You cannot fully believe what I've said, I will never fully believe what you've said.
Spare me the details of your trysts, I'll explain my problem in simple words. The SSH is flawed, based on a corrupted Western media of what a man is and ought to be.
Hey Gamma, it's rude to jump into someone else's blogpost, call them a cult leader, call the commentors bots and cultists, and then act like you're holier than thou while demonstrating an inability to tell truth from fiction.
You're a liar and a false accuser. You have no moral standing.
I was going to explain above but seems you're just concern trolling.
The main point you have, how is there this many people who know a rare personality type, is easily explain by selection bias. You don't go to a Trump rally and get surprised there's so Trump fans.
Disagreeing isn't concern trolling. There's 2 aspects of human behavior at work here. People that lie to promote an agenda and people that lie to make themselves look better. Both of which can and do happen.
It's like if I posted a question about who is above 6' on what is essentially an anonymous forum, people will lie skewing results. Do people not grift?
Like attracts like. If something is say 1 % rare but you're actively targeting it you're gonna get more of it. It's a sampling bias.
Also wtf !! No one is trying to sell anything to you. Vox asked women married to sigmas. He didnt ask you for your opinion and how you feel about this. Are you gay?
No, I'm a realist. I can say I make $5 million/annum and sit down all day researching niche topics of personal interest. It is not true, but considering you have no way of verifying as you don't know me in person, it would be foolish to believe me just off my words.
But seriously, feel free to be skeptical; nobody cares. That's the nice thing about telling the truth, it requires neither outside validation nor belief.
Funny thing about truth, people sometimes don't see the truth about themselves. If you don't care, then why type? Just continue sitting quietly in the back.
My words will find the people they're meant to be read by. You ought to just view it as graffiti.
Wow, you like that phrase when met with disagreement. You do know that "view it as graffiti" isn't a Jedi mind trick, right? You came here with an absurd set of premises, then expect regular commenters to politely pretend they don't see it, just because you said so. Good luck with that.
Also, decent people loathe graffiti, and this isn't the sort of place to allow it to stand.
I type because your assertion of skepticism in this particular comment section is so ridiculously absurd as to be weirdly entertaining. So far you've called us liars by claiming it's a psyop, asserting that we probably aren't women (because obviously there are no women on the internet), and assuming that there's some kind of scam taking place. And yet, you haven't said what it is you believe to be akshully false. Weird.
Anyway, if you don't like my comments, do feel free to also view them as graffiti.
That's a bunch of words, do you go up to graffiti and write responses too? Either agree or don't. If you don't, then these words were likely not meant for you. If you later do agree, then yes they were meant for you.
Cannot believe everything you see on the internet. All of them you don't know in person,1/2 of them are trying to sell you something, 1/4 are trying to scam you, and the last 1/4 might actually be real people, but you'd have no way of verifying without meeting up. And do you honestly want to meet random people off the internet that nobody you know actually knows?
At least you can see something is attempting to be sold to you.
And the meeting in person part is about verifying if what was claimed in a post is true. Suffice to say, I'd never want to meet any of you in person, though if one of you organized a meetup, I'd hope you bring a camera to record it so I can see from the comfort of my dwelling.
Married to a sigma. He couldn’t care less about the SSH categories and is constantly transcending hierarchy. As a 20 year old low-level trainer, he had lunch with his big tech company’s CEO. When we were dating, he took my dad to a Playboy Super Bowl party and introduced my dad to both Ozzy Osborne and Johnny Walker Blue. In his 30s, he walked up to one of the most important guys in my industry and made a cigar buddy for life. Today, he’s out driving around with our Congressman, who is also one of his best friends.
Yesterday, he mentioned that he had a conversation with someone about how he’s unemployable, which is something that comes up every so often, usually when he’s mastered whatever new project or skill has him out in the world. He’s done a ton of different things and is almost always a bellwether of future trends but then gets bored before the rest of the world catches up.
He is incredibly loyal to me and our kids. Right now, he’s focused on opening doors for them that our parents never thought to try to open for us. Like anything he sets his mind to, he’s succeeding.
We married when he was 24 and I knew I was never going to find another one like him. Never asked me out- just told me where dinner was that night. He’s tall and good looking and while my modeling career was very short, I credit my guardian angel for keeping me out of the path of Harvey Weinstein and Epstein. His Christian faith has anchored him, though being Greek Orthodox for the last 20 years is very different from the rock and roll church where we met.
His dad is a Gamma who does not understand his son. My dad is a classic alpha, and my mom struggles when my husband doesn’t care what people think. Husband can lead, but would really prefer not to, and once people start piling expectations on him, that’s when he’s ready to take off.
Married to sigma. Before we got married, I found very helpful and useful and attracted to seeing someone who could go against norms or the generic conversation. Some one who can tell me something I needed to hear that everyone wouldn't dare to say. Growing up everyone told me to take the meds that some psych doctor gave me that messed me up, it was my husband who gave me the permission to say no to the meds and not take them. I got better because of it. At my late mother's 5th funeral (we weren't even dating yet) he didn't bring up my mother or say what everyone said at the funeral, he basically just got my mind off the funeral and he treated me like a women who was move on while else was trying to trap me in perpetual mourning. Later on when we started dating, he made it clear that what his intentions were and what he wanted out of our relationship. We became the literal Ride or Die couple. Life hasn't been easy but our love for each other and our kids gets stronger each day. A relationship and a marriage God brought together and no one can tear or break apart. We're a team that doesn't try to sabotage but to stay in accountability and in growth. For better and for worse. For rich or for poor, we stay by each other's side. We follow God even when our families have tried to rip us apart. We will break generational curses together.
Pretty sure my husband is sigma as well. He's intensely private, so I don't like to go into too much detail. He's also highly intelligent; in the three years of his postgrad degree program, he received the top grade in his class something like 17 times; it almost literally drove some of his classmates crazy. For context, the previous record for that school had been 3 or 4. He gets along well with most coworkers, and his staff tend to be very loyal.
A lot of what the other wives here have said is true for him, too, particularly some of Drummergirl's comment.
We've been together for over three decades, and while life has thrown a lot at us at times, we're always a team and he always has my respect, love, trust, and support. Even on those occasions I don't see the method to his madness; it always works out.
My husband is a sigma, and I’ve been informed by AI models that my dad, who I thought was an alpha is as well.
Dad was handsome and fit in school, captain of men’s gymnastics team. Locked mom who modeled professionally instead of going to college, down early. He rose through traditional career paths but never stayed in a job more than 3-4 years. He got promoted usually because he would do things like used the rules of the bonus system for his initial sales position to land a $120k bonus in like 1988-ish, and then they’d have to change the rules behind him. At the peak of his career, he’d be brought in for corporate restructing and mergers because he had no issues firing half the staff to streamline an organization, and then once the organization was stable and needed to run smoothly he’d get the boot. He’s also a great example of how high status is not itself a moral good- his driving mission in life was making money to have fancy things like women, fast cars, and lots and lots of cocaine. My mother is a dark triad femme fatale nightmare herself and they are locked in a “can’t live with you, can’t live without you” doom spiral. They should never have a had children, but I got along with him great when he was present, which wasn’t often.
My sister settled down with a very nice, stable delta, from a nice stable family. My parents think they are dorky and boring.
My husband is a sigma who is also a good man. He and my father find each other baffling and do not like each other. My husband has never had a traditional job, our current tax return has like 15 1099s for him. At a family event maybe ten years into us being married my dad asked me what he does for work, thinking husband is a deadbeat because he doesn’t have a “real job.” And I had to remind dad about the deal my husband had closed a year before that let us pay off our house.
Our marriage requires a lot of independence on my end. I was alone for six months of my first pregnancy while husband was finishing a project, three months of the second, and a month of the third. That number has dropped with each child and as they’ve gotten older and more interested in him (ie not just wanting me for my boobs) and he feels heavily restricted in his ability to leave for projects and work that requires solitude. Nowadays he’ll take off more often but only for 1-2 weeks at a time. That’s not a restriction on my end, I’d be fine holding down the fort for months, but happy healthy family is part of his mission in life and he’s constantly torn between his need for solitude and being present with our children.
This is a major source of martial stress right now because I am just young enough to manage another child or two, and want more. But he is looking to the future in ten years when fatherhood is less demanding and he will be able to get the solitude he needs in longer stints. He’s frustrated with me for wanting to extend the intensive-parenting timeline and is sad that I’m not looking forward to when the kids are grown and it can be “just us.” For my part, I hear “just us” as “me being alone half the time, while you take off on 3-6 months projects since you don’t feel obligated not to do that for the kids’ sake anymore.” And I’m worried about being left alone half the time once the kids are grown with no vocation of my own. If I’m going to be left alone for months, I’d rather it be mothering until it becomes grand mothering. But having more kids to extend my mothering time also extends the time that he feels like he can’t get the solitude the he needs because the new kids would also need him.
Just one example of the kinds of stressors I’m finding in marriage to a sigma… all of our arguments occur when he is putting another mission ahead of the husband/family mission and it hits the limits of what I can handle OR when I invest my energy in outside things (our mothers or gig work or community activities or mentoring younger women) that take away from the energy I’m investing in the family mission.
Logic is the only way my girl. You need to present your case that more critters equals more stability/ease for future sigma. One could present it as more time you are focused on being mom/grandmom, the less time you will have to 'pester' him, etc.
Don't forget to include scripture about the blessings of kids/grandkids, and pie, lots of pie, or a really amazing 'sammish*.
I’ve had trouble squaring my dad’s behavior into one of the common categories. Maybe sigma, though he’s not a stoic womanizer with outlier IQ scores. He’s passionate and expressive, never meets a stranger, and isn’t into academics or chasing tail. But my mom said that when they started getting serious, rivals started pouring out of the woodwork.
If I assume that every move he makes is motivated by his walk with God and his need for freedom, it all makes sense.
I had a rocky relationship with him in my teenage and young adult years. But even when I hated him, he was objectively the coolest guy and I would have told anyone and everyone that. And they would agree!
This ought to be super interesting. I do have a concern that many women may not be very good at categorizing their husbands. If we're all a ten in our own minds, our husbands are going to be similarly misframed by the delusion. Married to a bravo, but it took me a very long time to figure out for sure because I don't see him in every context. Even when I do have good information, my mind wants to build him up to alpha because that's how he functions in so many situations that are functionally leaderless. He won't second just anybody that wants to beat his chest. He naturally looks for real alphas. And also, if he was the alpha, that would make me the hot cheerleader. 😉 'ware women married to deltas and gammas who think he's a sigma because things keep not working out for him.
Do women realistically tend to think that they are 10s in their own minds? I've heard women say that, but it is obviously laughable. Perhaps one woman in 1000 is an actual 10.
I've heard fat women calling themselves a 10, when they are realistically a 3. I'm not talking about you. The fact that you married a Bravo means you are probably around an 8, and an 8 is a great place to be.
Every single female? No. But it’s common in humans generally to have a high opinion of oneself, whether deserved or not, and women do put a lot of effort into feeling pretty. Have you ever heard that country song “She Don’t Know She’s Beautiful”? Every 3 in the world thinks she’s really a 7, and some sweet fellow will tell her so until she believes it. It’s not a bad thing.
That reminds me of Americans and Japanese people when it comes to math.
The average American will think and say he is better at math than he really is. The average Japanese person will say he isn't very good at math, when in reality, he probably better at it than the American.
Likewise, the average Japanese woman wouldn't dare to say she is significantly more attractive than average, though she probably is. Meanwhile many American women insist that they are quite a catch, when they objectively are not.
Good point. This is why my husband never calls himself a Sigma, since he knows both the low probability and my inherent bias. But he also never assigns himself any other category, since he's smart enough to see that they don't match up, and whenever he points out the probability/bias problem I just say, "Show me your hierarchy", and he can't say a word in response.
Of course, you could just say "then he's an Omega"! :)
If that’s the case, I think it’s really sweet and a refreshing change from what we constantly see and hear. It would also lend more credence to the fractal nature of the SSH where men have both absolute and situational status.
Not to sound stupid, Does it really matter if your wife sees you as high status: strong, mysterious, and a good leader / a man worth following?
What does your Bravo husband think of the SSH, if you've ever brought it up? Most of the Sigma husband anecdotes show them being totally uninterested, though much like Vox my Sigma friend finds the SSH aspect of every other rank and their dynamics more interesting as a ruleset for figuring out others who would otherwise be written off as insane or inscrutable.
I hope my comment didn’t drag this section off-topic. I’ve had this thought (about women being able to see their husbands correctly) several times, but just didn’t know where to put it. Husband thinks the SSH is very apt. Doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about it, probably.
I'm fairly certain my husband is a sigma. He is handsome, very intelligent and very successful in his profession. He is a bit of a mystery to my alpha father who has even asked me, "How do you explain a guy like your husband?". I have a big, social family and when we have gatherings my husband will always end up disappearing after a short while to do other things. My family used to be offended by this, but they've gotten used to it now.
Probably the toughest thing for me sometimes is the social part. My husband is very capable socially, but I've had to accept that we won't be the last ones at the party and we're not going on group vacations. I am someone who enjoys parties and vacationing with family and friends, but I know my husband won't do it. As in all marriages you have to make compromises and learn to accept certain things about each other.
My husband is very good at getting what he wants. He's like a pit bull when he decides to go after things and he won't let go until he's achieved his goal. I've learned to get on board and hang on for the ride. This can be difficult because I'm a people pleaser and he couldn't care less what people think, so sometimes that creates conflict. I'm very conflict avoidant unless absolutely necessary, but he isn't. Not that he yells or screams at people - he's very calm and collected and just outsmarts them. He's good at beating people at their own game so to speak.
All the women he works with love him and I think he's often mistaken for an alpha, but has no interest in being a "leader". He just wants to be left alone to do his thing. We probably have a successful relationship because we are both able to be independent, but we are each other's favorite person and I've embraced being his helper and trying to make his life easier and better.
Will = Aaron in disguise?
No. Different writing style.
A lot of the descriptions of husbands could be swapped out for describing INTJs
Vox is almost certainly an INTJ. Sigmas are rare. He has few sigma males to extract data from. His own INTJ traits are therefore likely to influence his attempts at describing sigma male traits.
Example: It wouldn't surprise me if the advice he posted to sigma-wives would work on most husbands with an INTJ or similar MBTI type.
Someone with an INTJ personality type most likely acts like a gamma, but could be a delta. You don't know, because Myer-Briggs is an introspective classification, not an observable classification. Aka, a person's Myer-Briggs classification fails to predict their behavior.
>Aka, a person's Myer-Briggs classification fails to predict their behavior.
Personally, I use both the MBTI and the SSH to predict other people's behavior, and I have more success with the MBTI than I have with the SSH.
For binary thinkers: I'm not saying that the SSH is useless, only that the combination of my current non-online MBTI skills, my current non-online SSH skills, and the predictions I care about in real life makes the MBTI superior for my use.
No.
INTJ's are overwhelmingly gammas.
No
My husband is definitionally a sigma. He was cool in high school, but unbothered by its hierarchy. On his mom’s side, all of the women are over 6 foot and all played D1 basketball, some even being original WNBA draft picks. Him and his brother (an alpha) were both naturals at the sport. He played his whole life and could have easily gone to at least college for it. But one day in high school, he just said, “eh, this is dumb. I’m not doing this anymore.” And quit. He literally didn’t think about it anymore. Whatever. Instead, he focused his time on studying theology and the secrets of the universe. He is one of the smartest people I have ever met, and one thing to note about him is that he is very decisive. He never asks for advice, he thinks through a decision rationally and very quickly, even life altering ones, and just does it. He doesn’t need any input from anyone else. I quite like this about him and find us very similar in that way, which drew me to him originally. We got married after two months of dating after simply making a joke about getting married the next week. I made the joke, and he said, “Yeah, what if we just did that?” And we did. Best decision we ever made. After about a year of marriage so far, it is worth noting that with him, the highs are really high and the lows are really low. I think the thing I struggle with the most is not taking it as a personal rejection when he gets into an esoteric headspace and needs space to think for long periods of time. He isn’t rejecting me, he’s rejecting the world and how “fake and gay” everything is. This has really been the root of any struggles we have had, though few in number because we do get along incredibly well and enjoy each other’s company a great deal. He reads people very well and is always vindicated in his conclusions. They usually take about 30 seconds to form accurately. He understands how hierarchy works, and he simply doesn’t care. Even though in high school the cool guys accepted him and he joked around with them and enjoyed their company when he felt like it situationally, he never hung out with them outside of school. He never pursued them even though they pursued him, he literally didn’t care. He’s the kind of guy to fall off the face of the earth and reappear several years later and leave everybody asking, “what happened to that guy?” He had the same attitude towards the women at our school. Every higher status girl at our school liked him at one point or another, even going out of their ways to approach him, he literally just laughed. He found them all dull and brainless. He wasn’t going to settle for someone who didn’t stimulate his mind, as well as his eyes. Being at a small (Baptist) Christian school, theology was obviously a background thing that was discussed. As soon as he got into theology, he shed everything he’d ever learned and denied his entire Christian theological upbringing within months without second notice. He just cares about what is right and true, he couldn’t care less about consensus, which defying it in a small southern Baptist town is almost a death sentence. He’s completely unbothered. He is unbothered in the sense that he doesn’t care what others have to say because he is confident in what he believes is true, but he often grows annoyed at “how truly stupid people are.” He isn’t prideful, he’s right. One of his greatest frustrations with the world is how simply incapable everyone is at seeing truth outside of whatever system they are presented. They refuse. He can’t wake them up and he often times stops trying and isolates until he is ready to go back into the world again. This is the other struggle I find myself having at times. I am a very social person, I am very nice and bubbly, which he likes because he looks like he wants to kill everyone (but he’s really just a nice guy! Haha) But, I am more willing than him to exchange cultural niceties and enjoy small chat simply for the purpose of trying to understand how different kinds of people think and do life. He is not. He knows already. He thinks it’s stupid and a waste of his time. So, I often find myself a bit more isolated than I’d like to be which can be compounded a bit when he is in an isolationist and esoteric state of mind for a longer period. But all in all, I wouldn’t trade him for the world. Those two frustrations (which of course he knows because he’s reading this too, lol) are worth the struggle because I couldn’t see myself with anyone else. We have so much fun together. We stimulate each other. The deep emotional bond that we share is unlike anything else in the world. We truly have reached an understanding with one another and it is the greatest companionship I have ever known, or ever could know. I know he feels the same way even though he doesn’t like sharing how he feels all the time (it’s gay) lol. I truly trust his mind and heart and would follow him to the ends of the earth. I’d much rather be a shut in than deal with the frustrations of the world without him. He is the only person who gets them. Who gets me. Marrying him was the best decision of my life.
I think my father is a sigma. I’m not certain but he checks a lot of the boxes. Very handsome, very good with women. Even when he was over weight, attractive women were still flirting with him.
I’ve never seen him be anything other than great at anything he’s tried. Tons of interests. He’s a percussionist, he’s athletic, he’s smart and has been against the grain for as long as I’ve been alive.
To his detriment, he never liked being told what to do. He’s had a series of jobs that have been completely unrelated to each other.
He only likes the priests that go against the grain. He has cut off family because they proclaim to be good Catholics but are pro-abortion.
And no, never vaxxed.
As a young child I always felt super safe and taken care of because he was so confident and self-assured which was always backed up by him being good at everything. I’ve never met anyone like him but grew up thinking that a lot of other men must be like this too.
I think I’ve fully talked myself into being sure he’s a sigma..
Here is a question for the women who know Sigmas:
Did your Sigma get vaxxed?
No
Absolutely. Not.
One non-mRNA dose for minimal compliance with an org that was standing in the way of a mission of his. He figured he’d never had a vaxx reaction, and no one in his family who had gotten one already showed any reaction, and that he would be fine (unlike me and the kids who have a bad personal and family history), and he seems to have been correct on that front.
We had talked about it, and I pleaded with him not to. And he told me he would think about it. And I expected that there would be another conversation before he made a decision. But he went ahead and made his decision and never cycled back with me. I found out about it months later when he mentioned it to someone else casually, and then was surprised that I was mad he didn’t tell me beforehand or in the months since. And he was like “why are you mad? I considered what you said and told you I would think about it and then I thought about it and then I made my decision.”
It was one of three times we’ve had a serious throw down because I believed he was prioritizing his work in a way that seriously put the family at risk. He disagreed that there was a substantial risk, but agreed to not get any more and let me put fraudulent dates for two mRNA shots onto his vaccine card when the same organization decided the non-mRNA shot wasn’t adequate.
He’s also let me do all of the decision making about the kids’ vaccines, which has been none. And defended my decision making to his family.
No he did not
No. He won't let anyone who might have gotten vaxxed in the house.
That's bold. Pretty sure everyone we know and virtually everyone we interact with got it; we'd have to become literal hermits.
No.
A definite no ! He has said to me before that the one good thing about covid and the vaccines coming around is it showed you quickly who you can trust and who cracks under enough pressure.
No.
I knew a probable Sigma for about 7 years, starting at age 15. He was in my homeschool group and was 16 at the time. He may have had some omega traits if that’s possible because he could be extremely weird to the point of it being a turn-off and yet somehow women were always flocking to him, fighting over him, etc.
When I first met him, my family was temporarily living in another state, so I got to know him online. I liked him because he understood and saw me better than others could and took things lightly when others would have made a fuss.
At the homeschool dances, other boys would be in groups, but the sigma would stand at the edge of the dance floor, leaning slightly forward intensely and talking to some girl for 1-2 hours. Then he would switch to another girl. Whereas the other boys were shy and nervous, this sigma always asked every girl he knew to dance at least once.
There were maybe four other girls in that homeschool group who liked him at the time. They went to the March for Life and fought over him. One girl manipulated him into being close with her, one girl called another a boyfriend thief, etc.
He got into a relationship with one of them that lasted for five years, and during that time he talked to me online on the side (not an emotional affair. He didn’t share much).
When they broke up, it took him only one or two weeks to get over her. He was very decisive and always acted quickly. Then he started going out with me. Going out with a sigma was emotionally satisfying in a way I have felt with almost no others. It felt like there was starlight in every cell of my body and like I was being whisked into a beautiful world separate from everyone else.
There’s so much more I could say, but I’ll stick to a few categories:
-Appearance: Very dark hair and eyes and physically attractive. Deep set eyes that looked dark and mysterious. He honestly looked exactly how you’d expect a sigma to look. He had an “evil villain from a movie” look and moved in ways that were mysterious and separate from everyone else. He walked very fast and always had to walk faster than everyone else.
-Intelligence: One of the most intelligent and high performing people I’ve met. Not much to say here.
-Weirdness and disregard of social norms: So you know how people say,“How are you?” “Good. How are you?” as a greeting? Well he decided to cut that first part of it off and greet people at work with just “Good, how are you?” up front. When he was 18 he started looking like an insane chicken for a while because he decided that shaving and cutting his hair were too boring, so he just… stopped. He was politically far right before being far right was cool.
-Independence: On date #4, he excused himself from the dance we were at to just sit outside under the stars on the railing of the steps and left me inside to talk and dance by myself. I always felt offended by how little he told others about me. Everyone else I knew at the time would share a lot about who they were dating. When he was dating the girl before me, he would get busy and not talk to her for days. His job had more independence than average. His comings and goings, his struggles were very private.
-Mysteriousness?: It usually takes a few interactions for me to get a sense of someone’s motivations, habits, and thought patterns, yet after seven years of knowing him, I could never crack his code. He would joke around constantly and even those closest to him had trouble knowing his real beliefs because they couldn’t tell if he was serious or kidding.
Anyway, I don’t think I ever fully got over him or found someone I liked better until I was 25. I’m 28 now and unmarried. There is another woman from our homeschool group who also liked him for years and is my same age. She is single, too. Maybe she was also a sigma widow…
Thank you for sharing your very helpful insights.
Off topic but...
You know our society isn't working well when even the attractive homeschool girls aren't getting married by age 28. I assume you are attractive because the sigma found you worthy of his attention. For your sake, I wish you could have fallen for a Bravo instead. You would be happily married with a couple kids by now.
Aww thank you very much. Yeah, I wish things could have worked out differently. It is what it is.
Vox, thank you for including the ladies in the book. I have enjoyed and benefited from reading their experiences, observations, and general comments. Read them individually, not in a structured manner. Thank you and once again, thank you very much ladies, without you we wouldn’t exist. Deus Optimus Maximus Est.
My husband is a Sigma, which I realized when I read the words, “Everyone else is vaguely confused by them” and it explained about a hundred odd interactions in a second.
I met my husband on a missions campus, where he seemed to be perpetually sitting on the picnic table outside the dining room, playing his red guitar. He was more rugged than the pretty boys I usually liked, but I was fascinated by him. He said things that I had never heard anyone else say. What's more, he said them unapologetically, casually, like he didn't care if I agreed with him or not, and he was completely unphased by any disagreement that I had with his ideas. He would have an intelligent conversation if I wanted to understand what he meant, but he never tried to convince me and he was never intimidated by me. He also didn't seem to care about social norms; there was never any pressure when I was around him. He did what he wanted, and expected me to do the same. I hung out with him as often as I could, which wasn't hard when he was always on that picnic table. And yet everybody else knew him, too, because apparently he had gone to this place or that event or had danced with that girl or worked out with that guy... I couldn't keep track.
When I eventually moved to be with him, all the young women who I had never met before would constantly be gathering around me asking me questions about HIM. Even if he offended them, they would ask variations of, “why is he such a jerk?” They asked me one time if our relationship was “passionate”, and since we are both passionate people I answered in the affirmative, to which they all passed around glances and giggled with pleasure. It was very confusing being taken around by him in this new environment. He (so we, but I was not in the loop) would drop by events randomly, and stay for as along as he wanted. Sometimes we didn't even go all the way in, but just talked to someone in the entrance. Or we would be doing errands and he would have a friendly conversation with someone, and when we walked away I would ask, “who are they?”, and it would turn out that he was talking to a complete stranger.
He is tall and ruggedly handsome, with a big barrel chest and piercing hazel eyes that still make me stop in my tracks meekly after 15 years together. He is the most patient man I know, not because he always acts patient but because no one else would act that patient when people annoy them so much. He is the most generous man I know, not because he goes around handing things out but because no one else would value the utility of things so highly and still suffer them to be given away to people they think so little of. He is both severe and kind, because kindness is him making the effort to say the hard things that no one wants to say and no one wants to hear, but that need to be said – especially to me and to our children. He can also be one of the funniest, happiest, warmest people I've ever met, and at home he often is.
My husband works from home and, after an extended period of moving around a lot, has in our current town actively avoided forming any relationships or obligations outside the home. He reports to no one, hears from no one, and meets no one regularly. Within the home, he is happiest when he has no expectations or obligations, and he can emerge from his office whenever he wants for whatever he wants. Outside the home he regularly comes into contact with strangers, who treat him like an Alpha. The Deltas and Gammas spill their life stories and seek advice, and the women talk and smile and flip their hair until he finally leaves. He finds this annoying – especially the women – and I have to remind him, “They think you're an Alpha. They will talk to you until you let them go.”
The single thing I love the most about my husband is his character. His actions are entirely guided by what he believes to be right and wrong, and he will stick to that. This has often made things more difficult for us – sometimes very difficult, like when we ended up homeless with a newborn and $5 to our name – but I also have strong convictions and I know I could never have respected anyone else.
When my husband and I were dating, my Delta father told me, “If you marry him, your marriage will be stormier than most.” I remember thinking that anything less sounded boring. He was right... but so was I.
Honestly, nearly all of this reads like some superscaled psyop. There's never been such religious injection into these comment sections before that it all clearly seems unreal. This is the age of AI now, and so I must gradually phase out internet and all digital consumption and remain in true reality. Even the church pastor one seems like an ai rehash of the true pastor in Canada that stayed open in Covid.
Half of these read like a script of checkboxes on the idealization of what a "sigma" should be. Notice the idealized "alpha dad" and glorification of fleshly desires, none of the nuanced flaws of real men. And, ultimately, there's no foolproof way to verify if they're just random bot accounts using ai generated text or real people. Beware consensus forming from the new ai tools available. Real life will always be more than some opinion you read on some website somewhere especially when it concerns other people. Youtube comments are an example of this where the algorithm will start recommending you things and there's nonstop 10's of millions of english speaking people just getting out of a divorce and advising you to stay isolated.
Honestly turn to Christ and do not wonder after the beast and its image.
Another win for the predictive power of the SSH: Another gamma spamming this post with walls of text no-one will ever read after being explicitly told to do precisely the opposite.
This is the part where we respectfully but decisively ask you to either shut up or leave.
Gamma of the week = Will.
Please, gamma, shut up.
There has been plenty of glorification of fleshly desires in this Substack's comment section, especially when it was new. I don't see it in the comments of this post.
Superscaled psyop? That's a fun thought, I wonder who would be the honeypots here vs. the targets who are being kept from living their best lives? Or is it that our claims all represent an unrealistic ideal that no normal couple could hope to emulate, thus first elevating then dashing hopes of the poor masses who can never have what we have?
The honeypot is Vox very clearly asking that only women respond. An irresistible temptation for your average gamma.
Gamma: "I won't sleep with you Vox!"
*sigh*
No, I'm mapping things out. Most of the people on substack exist in a subset of the digital world and much of it is above average intelligence people, generally european or caucasian phenotype, and usually dealing with some form of tech as part of their daily life. You will not find many pipefitters, mechanics, firemen, lawyers, doctors on here for example.
But this subset of men on substack are the most likely to be churners of the society being built right now since they mostly had a part in the shaping of current thought and the tech behind it.
But this is what I mean by psyop.
Will, are you a woman? What does your Sigma husband do?
Most of these are regular posters, and it's hardly surprising that the description of a Sigma should sound like it describes... a Sigma.
You, however? I don't remember seeing you around.
On one hand you have Vox talking about the rarity of a "sigma". On the other hand all of you "women" have married one, have the presence of mind to be on the internet, somehow have the accident to come to know what a "sigma" is, somehow have tracked down the origin of the thought of a "sigma male" to Vox and this place and then post about it here.
It's a natural impulse of flesh to desire to have the best for itself or puff itself up as having the best, but do not be surprised at my skepticism.
Vox has 7000 subscribers here. There are 71 total comments so far. That’s a reasonable percentage of women who can speak of their Sigma men experiences as followers of this Substack.
I’ve been following Vox Day since his early days as a weekly columnist on WND 20+ years ago. I’ve bought most of his books.
The man is just asking for comments in order to finish his latest book.
I have my own experience I could share of a Sigma I spent a few weeks with in 2019 who was the most interesting person I’ve ever met.
What’s really bothering you, Will? That you want to be a Sigma, but you’re not one?
Anyone can amass a cult following. I'm witnessing to some Mormons right now trying to explain why Joseph Smith is a false prophet, but nary a true believer of him will hearken to truth.
In the advent of Protonmail where you can spam email addresses, then bot accounts with ai generated text here, there's simply too much to doubt, especially when contrasted with real life experience. You cannot fully believe what I've said, I will never fully believe what you've said.
Spare me the details of your trysts, I'll explain my problem in simple words. The SSH is flawed, based on a corrupted Western media of what a man is and ought to be.
"Anyone can amass a cult following."
Hey Gamma, it's rude to jump into someone else's blogpost, call them a cult leader, call the commentors bots and cultists, and then act like you're holier than thou while demonstrating an inability to tell truth from fiction.
You're a liar and a false accuser. You have no moral standing.
I was going to explain above but seems you're just concern trolling.
The main point you have, how is there this many people who know a rare personality type, is easily explain by selection bias. You don't go to a Trump rally and get surprised there's so Trump fans.
Disagreeing isn't concern trolling. There's 2 aspects of human behavior at work here. People that lie to promote an agenda and people that lie to make themselves look better. Both of which can and do happen.
It's like if I posted a question about who is above 6' on what is essentially an anonymous forum, people will lie skewing results. Do people not grift?
Please don't explain anything. Nobody asked for an explanation. Nobody wants an explanation. You are retarded.
You are not everybody, humble yourself.
Like attracts like. If something is say 1 % rare but you're actively targeting it you're gonna get more of it. It's a sampling bias.
Also wtf !! No one is trying to sell anything to you. Vox asked women married to sigmas. He didnt ask you for your opinion and how you feel about this. Are you gay?
It's a sampling bias of the worst kind: self reported with the potential of self-aggrandizement.
When someone assumes things without any valid reason it's most likely projection. Are you a liar?
No, I'm a realist. I can say I make $5 million/annum and sit down all day researching niche topics of personal interest. It is not true, but considering you have no way of verifying as you don't know me in person, it would be foolish to believe me just off my words.
But seriously, feel free to be skeptical; nobody cares. That's the nice thing about telling the truth, it requires neither outside validation nor belief.
Funny thing about truth, people sometimes don't see the truth about themselves. If you don't care, then why type? Just continue sitting quietly in the back.
My words will find the people they're meant to be read by. You ought to just view it as graffiti.
Your words found me, I was waiting for you.
Wow, you like that phrase when met with disagreement. You do know that "view it as graffiti" isn't a Jedi mind trick, right? You came here with an absurd set of premises, then expect regular commenters to politely pretend they don't see it, just because you said so. Good luck with that.
Also, decent people loathe graffiti, and this isn't the sort of place to allow it to stand.
I type because your assertion of skepticism in this particular comment section is so ridiculously absurd as to be weirdly entertaining. So far you've called us liars by claiming it's a psyop, asserting that we probably aren't women (because obviously there are no women on the internet), and assuming that there's some kind of scam taking place. And yet, you haven't said what it is you believe to be akshully false. Weird.
Anyway, if you don't like my comments, do feel free to also view them as graffiti.
That's a bunch of words, do you go up to graffiti and write responses too? Either agree or don't. If you don't, then these words were likely not meant for you. If you later do agree, then yes they were meant for you.
"Women."
Ha!
Cannot believe everything you see on the internet. All of them you don't know in person,1/2 of them are trying to sell you something, 1/4 are trying to scam you, and the last 1/4 might actually be real people, but you'd have no way of verifying without meeting up. And do you honestly want to meet random people off the internet that nobody you know actually knows?
Besides Vox’s books, I didn’t see anything for sale. Unless there’s a secret market for sigma waifus of which I am unaware.
Who talked about meeting anyone? Is there a pop up ad only you can see that’s advertising sigma-friendly girls near you who want to meet up?
I wouldn’t trust that, either.
At least you can see something is attempting to be sold to you.
And the meeting in person part is about verifying if what was claimed in a post is true. Suffice to say, I'd never want to meet any of you in person, though if one of you organized a meetup, I'd hope you bring a camera to record it so I can see from the comfort of my dwelling.
Married to a sigma. He couldn’t care less about the SSH categories and is constantly transcending hierarchy. As a 20 year old low-level trainer, he had lunch with his big tech company’s CEO. When we were dating, he took my dad to a Playboy Super Bowl party and introduced my dad to both Ozzy Osborne and Johnny Walker Blue. In his 30s, he walked up to one of the most important guys in my industry and made a cigar buddy for life. Today, he’s out driving around with our Congressman, who is also one of his best friends.
Yesterday, he mentioned that he had a conversation with someone about how he’s unemployable, which is something that comes up every so often, usually when he’s mastered whatever new project or skill has him out in the world. He’s done a ton of different things and is almost always a bellwether of future trends but then gets bored before the rest of the world catches up.
He is incredibly loyal to me and our kids. Right now, he’s focused on opening doors for them that our parents never thought to try to open for us. Like anything he sets his mind to, he’s succeeding.
We married when he was 24 and I knew I was never going to find another one like him. Never asked me out- just told me where dinner was that night. He’s tall and good looking and while my modeling career was very short, I credit my guardian angel for keeping me out of the path of Harvey Weinstein and Epstein. His Christian faith has anchored him, though being Greek Orthodox for the last 20 years is very different from the rock and roll church where we met.
His dad is a Gamma who does not understand his son. My dad is a classic alpha, and my mom struggles when my husband doesn’t care what people think. Husband can lead, but would really prefer not to, and once people start piling expectations on him, that’s when he’s ready to take off.
Married to sigma. Before we got married, I found very helpful and useful and attracted to seeing someone who could go against norms or the generic conversation. Some one who can tell me something I needed to hear that everyone wouldn't dare to say. Growing up everyone told me to take the meds that some psych doctor gave me that messed me up, it was my husband who gave me the permission to say no to the meds and not take them. I got better because of it. At my late mother's 5th funeral (we weren't even dating yet) he didn't bring up my mother or say what everyone said at the funeral, he basically just got my mind off the funeral and he treated me like a women who was move on while else was trying to trap me in perpetual mourning. Later on when we started dating, he made it clear that what his intentions were and what he wanted out of our relationship. We became the literal Ride or Die couple. Life hasn't been easy but our love for each other and our kids gets stronger each day. A relationship and a marriage God brought together and no one can tear or break apart. We're a team that doesn't try to sabotage but to stay in accountability and in growth. For better and for worse. For rich or for poor, we stay by each other's side. We follow God even when our families have tried to rip us apart. We will break generational curses together.
Pretty sure my husband is sigma as well. He's intensely private, so I don't like to go into too much detail. He's also highly intelligent; in the three years of his postgrad degree program, he received the top grade in his class something like 17 times; it almost literally drove some of his classmates crazy. For context, the previous record for that school had been 3 or 4. He gets along well with most coworkers, and his staff tend to be very loyal.
A lot of what the other wives here have said is true for him, too, particularly some of Drummergirl's comment.
We've been together for over three decades, and while life has thrown a lot at us at times, we're always a team and he always has my respect, love, trust, and support. Even on those occasions I don't see the method to his madness; it always works out.
My husband is a sigma, and I’ve been informed by AI models that my dad, who I thought was an alpha is as well.
Dad was handsome and fit in school, captain of men’s gymnastics team. Locked mom who modeled professionally instead of going to college, down early. He rose through traditional career paths but never stayed in a job more than 3-4 years. He got promoted usually because he would do things like used the rules of the bonus system for his initial sales position to land a $120k bonus in like 1988-ish, and then they’d have to change the rules behind him. At the peak of his career, he’d be brought in for corporate restructing and mergers because he had no issues firing half the staff to streamline an organization, and then once the organization was stable and needed to run smoothly he’d get the boot. He’s also a great example of how high status is not itself a moral good- his driving mission in life was making money to have fancy things like women, fast cars, and lots and lots of cocaine. My mother is a dark triad femme fatale nightmare herself and they are locked in a “can’t live with you, can’t live without you” doom spiral. They should never have a had children, but I got along with him great when he was present, which wasn’t often.
My sister settled down with a very nice, stable delta, from a nice stable family. My parents think they are dorky and boring.
My husband is a sigma who is also a good man. He and my father find each other baffling and do not like each other. My husband has never had a traditional job, our current tax return has like 15 1099s for him. At a family event maybe ten years into us being married my dad asked me what he does for work, thinking husband is a deadbeat because he doesn’t have a “real job.” And I had to remind dad about the deal my husband had closed a year before that let us pay off our house.
Our marriage requires a lot of independence on my end. I was alone for six months of my first pregnancy while husband was finishing a project, three months of the second, and a month of the third. That number has dropped with each child and as they’ve gotten older and more interested in him (ie not just wanting me for my boobs) and he feels heavily restricted in his ability to leave for projects and work that requires solitude. Nowadays he’ll take off more often but only for 1-2 weeks at a time. That’s not a restriction on my end, I’d be fine holding down the fort for months, but happy healthy family is part of his mission in life and he’s constantly torn between his need for solitude and being present with our children.
This is a major source of martial stress right now because I am just young enough to manage another child or two, and want more. But he is looking to the future in ten years when fatherhood is less demanding and he will be able to get the solitude he needs in longer stints. He’s frustrated with me for wanting to extend the intensive-parenting timeline and is sad that I’m not looking forward to when the kids are grown and it can be “just us.” For my part, I hear “just us” as “me being alone half the time, while you take off on 3-6 months projects since you don’t feel obligated not to do that for the kids’ sake anymore.” And I’m worried about being left alone half the time once the kids are grown with no vocation of my own. If I’m going to be left alone for months, I’d rather it be mothering until it becomes grand mothering. But having more kids to extend my mothering time also extends the time that he feels like he can’t get the solitude the he needs because the new kids would also need him.
Just one example of the kinds of stressors I’m finding in marriage to a sigma… all of our arguments occur when he is putting another mission ahead of the husband/family mission and it hits the limits of what I can handle OR when I invest my energy in outside things (our mothers or gig work or community activities or mentoring younger women) that take away from the energy I’m investing in the family mission.
Logic is the only way my girl. You need to present your case that more critters equals more stability/ease for future sigma. One could present it as more time you are focused on being mom/grandmom, the less time you will have to 'pester' him, etc.
Don't forget to include scripture about the blessings of kids/grandkids, and pie, lots of pie, or a really amazing 'sammish*.
*Sammishes are kryptonite in the right situation.
I’ve had trouble squaring my dad’s behavior into one of the common categories. Maybe sigma, though he’s not a stoic womanizer with outlier IQ scores. He’s passionate and expressive, never meets a stranger, and isn’t into academics or chasing tail. But my mom said that when they started getting serious, rivals started pouring out of the woodwork.
If I assume that every move he makes is motivated by his walk with God and his need for freedom, it all makes sense.
I had a rocky relationship with him in my teenage and young adult years. But even when I hated him, he was objectively the coolest guy and I would have told anyone and everyone that. And they would agree!
IQ is somewhat independent of the SSH.
Yeah, the way his mind works makes over-socialized women ask if he’s off his meds lol
This ought to be super interesting. I do have a concern that many women may not be very good at categorizing their husbands. If we're all a ten in our own minds, our husbands are going to be similarly misframed by the delusion. Married to a bravo, but it took me a very long time to figure out for sure because I don't see him in every context. Even when I do have good information, my mind wants to build him up to alpha because that's how he functions in so many situations that are functionally leaderless. He won't second just anybody that wants to beat his chest. He naturally looks for real alphas. And also, if he was the alpha, that would make me the hot cheerleader. 😉 'ware women married to deltas and gammas who think he's a sigma because things keep not working out for him.
Do women realistically tend to think that they are 10s in their own minds? I've heard women say that, but it is obviously laughable. Perhaps one woman in 1000 is an actual 10.
I've heard fat women calling themselves a 10, when they are realistically a 3. I'm not talking about you. The fact that you married a Bravo means you are probably around an 8, and an 8 is a great place to be.
Every single female? No. But it’s common in humans generally to have a high opinion of oneself, whether deserved or not, and women do put a lot of effort into feeling pretty. Have you ever heard that country song “She Don’t Know She’s Beautiful”? Every 3 in the world thinks she’s really a 7, and some sweet fellow will tell her so until she believes it. It’s not a bad thing.
Thanks 👍
That reminds me of Americans and Japanese people when it comes to math.
The average American will think and say he is better at math than he really is. The average Japanese person will say he isn't very good at math, when in reality, he probably better at it than the American.
Likewise, the average Japanese woman wouldn't dare to say she is significantly more attractive than average, though she probably is. Meanwhile many American women insist that they are quite a catch, when they objectively are not.
Modesty is beautiful
Had this same thought but with a vastly different conclusion. Interesting comment, and sorry Vox for you know what.
Good point. This is why my husband never calls himself a Sigma, since he knows both the low probability and my inherent bias. But he also never assigns himself any other category, since he's smart enough to see that they don't match up, and whenever he points out the probability/bias problem I just say, "Show me your hierarchy", and he can't say a word in response.
Of course, you could just say "then he's an Omega"! :)
If that’s the case, I think it’s really sweet and a refreshing change from what we constantly see and hear. It would also lend more credence to the fractal nature of the SSH where men have both absolute and situational status.
Not to sound stupid, Does it really matter if your wife sees you as high status: strong, mysterious, and a good leader / a man worth following?
It matters if there is respect. That often manifests as those qualities you list.
Having a wife who doesn't respect you is miserable.
If the man is a gamma.
What does your Bravo husband think of the SSH, if you've ever brought it up? Most of the Sigma husband anecdotes show them being totally uninterested, though much like Vox my Sigma friend finds the SSH aspect of every other rank and their dynamics more interesting as a ruleset for figuring out others who would otherwise be written off as insane or inscrutable.
I hope my comment didn’t drag this section off-topic. I’ve had this thought (about women being able to see their husbands correctly) several times, but just didn’t know where to put it. Husband thinks the SSH is very apt. Doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about it, probably.
I've thought of this before as well but I'm certainly not going to knock on some woman who thinks the world of her husband. It's kind of a dick move.
I'm fairly certain my husband is a sigma. He is handsome, very intelligent and very successful in his profession. He is a bit of a mystery to my alpha father who has even asked me, "How do you explain a guy like your husband?". I have a big, social family and when we have gatherings my husband will always end up disappearing after a short while to do other things. My family used to be offended by this, but they've gotten used to it now.
Probably the toughest thing for me sometimes is the social part. My husband is very capable socially, but I've had to accept that we won't be the last ones at the party and we're not going on group vacations. I am someone who enjoys parties and vacationing with family and friends, but I know my husband won't do it. As in all marriages you have to make compromises and learn to accept certain things about each other.
My husband is very good at getting what he wants. He's like a pit bull when he decides to go after things and he won't let go until he's achieved his goal. I've learned to get on board and hang on for the ride. This can be difficult because I'm a people pleaser and he couldn't care less what people think, so sometimes that creates conflict. I'm very conflict avoidant unless absolutely necessary, but he isn't. Not that he yells or screams at people - he's very calm and collected and just outsmarts them. He's good at beating people at their own game so to speak.
All the women he works with love him and I think he's often mistaken for an alpha, but has no interest in being a "leader". He just wants to be left alone to do his thing. We probably have a successful relationship because we are both able to be independent, but we are each other's favorite person and I've embraced being his helper and trying to make his life easier and better.