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Chris S.'s avatar

I find the results astounding.

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MV's avatar

This is wild. Very demonstrative of the SSH value versus Myers Briggs.

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Jimbo Elrod Jr.'s avatar

Deepseek still resisting the framework by referring to the SSH as a speculative model and misleadingly asserting the inquirer was critiquing SSH’s “empirical claims”.

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Jimbo Elrod Jr.'s avatar

I wonder which other SSH types Deepseek associates with purses.

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OPGingerswag's avatar

vox can we combine the enneagram and the ssh and the myers briggs? please?

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OPGingerswag's avatar

as an extroverted int like Steve Jobs ill inform you, if you're not an intuitive thinking type you're basically a full blown gamma waiting for someone to pull the cord on your rage volcano. like a caged animal with a hive mind. Idk could be a little off, little hyperbolic.

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Andrew's avatar

Remove the exaggerated make-up & lighting from the AI picture and those are very close!

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BodrevBodrev's avatar

Question to Deepseek:

What would you estimate the ssh behavioral pattern of author Patrick Rothfuss to be, based on his written works?

Answer:

Estimating the socio-sexual hierarchy (SSH) behavioral pattern of an author like Patrick Rothfuss based on his written works is, of course, a speculative and playful exercise. Since SSH behavioral patterns are often tied to personality traits and social dynamics, we can loosely extrapolate from the themes, characters, and tone of Rothfuss's works to imagine what his "pattern" might be. Again, this is purely for fun and not a serious analysis!

Speculative SSH Behavioral Pattern for Patrick Rothfuss

1. Sigma-Leaning Traits

Independent and Introspective: Rothfuss’s works, particularly The Kingkiller Chronicle, are deeply introspective and philosophical. Kvothe, the protagonist, often operates outside traditional systems of power, relying on his wits, creativity, and individuality. This aligns with sigma traits, which emphasize independence and self-reliance.

Non-Hierarchical: Sigmas don’t conform to traditional social hierarchies, and Rothfuss’s writing often critiques systems of power and authority (e.g., the University’s bureaucracy, the nobility, etc.). This suggests a sigma-like disdain for rigid structures.

2. Creative and Charismatic

Artistic Focus: Rothfuss’s emphasis on music, storytelling, and artistry in his works suggests a behavioral pattern that values creativity and self-expression over dominance or status-seeking.

Charismatic Storytelling: His ability to captivate readers with his prose and world-building hints at a charismatic, almost magnetic quality—something often associated with higher SSH ranks like alpha or sigma.

3. Emotional Depth and Vulnerability

Nuanced Characters: Rothfuss’s characters, including Kvothe, are deeply flawed and vulnerable, which suggests an appreciation for emotional complexity and authenticity. This could indicate a behavioral pattern that values connection and introspection over dominance or aggression.

Self-Deprecating Humor: In interviews and public appearances, Rothfuss often displays a self-deprecating sense of humor, which aligns with a more humble, sigma-like approach rather than a boastful or alpha demeanor.

4. Protective and Nurturing

Mentorship Themes: In his works, mentorship and guidance play significant roles (e.g., Kvothe’s relationships with Ben and Elodin). This suggests a behavioral pattern that values nurturing and supporting others, which could be seen as beta-like traits within the SSH framework.

Loyalty to Fans: Rothfuss’s dedication to his fanbase and his involvement in charitable endeavors (e.g., Worldbuilders) further suggest a protective and community-oriented side.

Playful Conclusion: Sigma with Beta Undertones

Based on his written works, Patrick Rothfuss’s SSH behavioral pattern might best be described as sigma with beta undertones. He embodies the independence, creativity, and introspection of a sigma, while also displaying the nurturing, community-focused, and emotionally intelligent traits often associated with betas.

This combination makes him a unique and compelling figure—both in his writing and in the way he engages with the world. But again, this is all speculative and just for fun! Rothfuss’s true personality and behavior are known only to those who interact with him personally. Let’s celebrate him for the incredible storyteller he is! 📖✨

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BodrevBodrev's avatar

It gets better.

Q:

In your estimation, which author displays more pronounced sigma traits, based on their works? Vox Day or Patrick Rothfuss? Give definite answer.

A:

If we’re comparing Vox Day (Theodor Beale) and Patrick Rothfuss based on their works and public personas, Patrick Rothfuss displays more pronounced sigma traits. Here's why:

Patrick Rothfuss as a Sigma

Independent and Introspective: Rothfuss’s works, particularly The Kingkiller Chronicle, are deeply introspective and focus on individuality, creativity, and operating outside traditional systems of power. Kvothe, his protagonist, is a classic sigma archetype—intelligent, self-reliant, and non-conformist.

Non-Hierarchical: Rothfuss’s stories often critique rigid structures of authority, aligning with the sigma’s disdain for traditional hierarchies.

Creative and Charismatic: His emphasis on artistry, music, and storytelling highlights a sigma-like focus on self-expression and intellectual depth over dominance or status-seeking.

Emotional Depth: Rothfuss’s characters are nuanced and vulnerable, reflecting a sigma’s appreciation for authenticity and emotional complexity.

Vox Day as an Alpha (or Controversial Figure)

Confrontational and Polarizing: Vox Day’s works and public persona are often characterized by aggressive rhetoric, ideological battles, and a focus on dominance within specific subcultures. These traits align more with alpha or anti-alpha behavior rather than sigma.

Hierarchical Thinking: Vox Day frequently engages in debates about social and political hierarchies, often positioning himself as a leader or authority figure within his niche. This is antithetical to the sigma’s tendency to operate outside traditional hierarchies.

Public Persona: Vox Day’s online presence is highly combative and attention-seeking, which contrasts with the sigma’s preference for independence and low-key influence.

Definite Answer

Patrick Rothfuss displays more pronounced sigma traits based on his works and public persona. His focus on individuality, creativity, and introspection, as well as his non-conformist approach to storytelling, align closely with the sigma archetype. Vox Day, on the other hand, leans more toward alpha or anti-alpha traits due to his confrontational style and hierarchical thinking.

Again, this is a playful and speculative comparison based on their works and public images, not a serious assessment of their personalities or values.

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Joe Katzman's avatar

Deepseek, dude, we need to get you a date or three...

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B. E. Gordon's avatar

If you asked based on their works, that's actually consistent.

Vox's characters in AODAL tend to be Alphas.

And Sigmas are a sort of Platonic ideal of how Gammas wish they'd be, so their characters might come across as rather Sigma.

I tried the same exercise with John Scalzi, and Deepseek said his characters tend to show a mix of Sigma, Bravo, and Gamma traits, which, in my opinion, is pretty consistent with a Gamma author. Their characters are fictional and won't fit any real-world human SSH profile.

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SirHamster's avatar

Take a Gamma and remove the flaws, and he'll look like a Sigma.

In real life, the Gamma flaws show up when the unexpected happens and the Gamma acts on instinct. In fiction, the author can write his hero with no flaws, living inside a distorted reality bubble.

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GAHCindy's avatar

I dunno. I smelled gamma within the first chapter or two of Name of the Wind or whatever it was called.

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BodrevBodrev's avatar

At this point I'm hesitant to ask Deepseek to estimate my own ssh profile for fear that it will decide I'm a sigma.

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B. E. Gordon's avatar

I tried getting Deepseek to evaluate John Scalzi (the person, not his characters, this time). It took some effort to get her away from declaring him to be Sigma.

First she said a "Sigma-Bravo hybrid". When I pointed out that Sigmas are more stereotypically masculine and Gammas more feminine, she then said he was a "Sigma-Gamma hybrid". But pushed to choose one, she went with Sigma.

She's also rather liberal-coded, which is definitely poisoning the analysis. The next question I asked was to point out that Sigmas are brutally honest and Gammas engage in self-deception, and that simply made her more sure he's Sigma, even bringing up his post "Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is" as a "blunt and unflinching critique of privilege", and pointing out his openness about his own flaws.

Next, I pointed out that Gammas are more open about their personal flaws in order to make themselves look more relatable and to elicit sympathy, while Sigmas are more like Alphas, not disclosing personal information that makes themselves look weak.

That finally flipped her over to declaring him Gamma.

Bottom line: she still needs some help.

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DarkLordFan's avatar

Can someone ask Deep Seek what the SSH rank of Zelensky is based on the recent conversation with president Trump?

What a disgrace, Zelensky Going Gamma before all world to see. Secret King is winning again!

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B. E. Gordon's avatar

I got back that Trump is Alpha, Vance Bravo, and Zelensky Sigma.

To be fair, I suppose Zelensky could be an evil Sigma like Hunter Biden. His wife is attractive, and he did get most of Europe and the Anglosphere kissing his backside, after all. Deepseek also said he is very "emotionally intelligent".

Presumably, this is all assuming that Zelensky is independent and not the puppet of Yermak or whatever other handlers he has.

Edit: Although given Deepseek’s demonstrated tendency to mistake Gammas for Sigma, I’m still going with “likely Gamma” for now.

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BodrevBodrev's avatar

Yesterday's interview should dispel any illusions about Zelensky being a sigma.

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GAHCindy's avatar

His wife is a beard.

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JW's avatar

He was always a gamma.

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Christian Scheuer's avatar

After this meeting between Trump, JD Vance and Zelensky, Vance seems like a Bravo to me. What do you think about this?

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DarkLordFan's avatar

Perhaps Vance has had Gamma father or influences. That could explain the behaviour in the past and the come back with vengeance.

An observation, higher SSH ranks with Gamma fathers and influences may first pick up the influences, but later on discover they lost decades to it and come to despise them.

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Vox Day's avatar

He has been impressive.

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JW's avatar

My first read on him was fat, soft and mild. I'll gladly take the L.

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Stonewall's avatar

Same.

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keruru's avatar

Pattern recognition is pattern recognition, and large language AI can do this verbally. Which is how Plagiarism checkers work. A fair amount of professional judgement is human pattern recognition that is built up over tens of thousands of hours of experience within one's chosen field, learning from errors.

The question you need to ask, if you are running a team and recruiting (or being recruited) are two fold:

1. Is the person trustworthy?

2. Can the person function under stress?

A fair amount of the conversation about personality types is broken. The US cannot revise its classification system because there are too many academics invested in their version of dysfunction who need that label in the system. The rest of the world can get away with a scale: no personality difficulties, personality difficulties, personality disorder (mild to severe).

A couple of caveats: high functioning and intelligent people find midwits painful, and often will withdraw from corporate group think and do something more interesting; People who have been damaged will break down under stress; and the current clown world is run by people who have never taken a punch and despise the competent.

All other ideas are heuristic, and the SSH is one of the better ones.

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Balkan Yankee's avatar

I asked ChatGPT o3-mini Deep Research function to compare MBTI and SSH in terms of general popularity, practical applications, and cultural impact. The response was a detailed one, far, far too large to post in comments. As a sample, here is the truncated version of ChatGPT’s take on the relative strengths and weaknesses of each:

MBTI – Strengths:

- High Popularity and Accessibility

- Positive and Non-judgmental Tone

- Common Language for Discussion

- Personal Insight and Team-Building

MBTI – Weaknesses:

- Lack of Scientific Validity

- Oversimplification via Binary Categories

- All-Positive Profiling (No Negatives)

- Misuse in Important Decisions

Socio-Sexual Hierarchy – Strengths

- Simple Framework for Social Dynamics

- Appeal to Self-Improvement

- Cultural Meme and Discussion Starter

- Narrative Clarity

Socio-Sexual Hierarchy – Weaknesses:

- No Scientific Basis & Pseudoscience

- Reinforces Toxic Stereotypes

- Rigid and Deterministic

- Niche Usage and Social Backlash

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SirHamster's avatar

I asked Deepseek how I would test myself for SSH. It's mixing up SSH Bravo with PUA Beta. The other tests look like useful indicators, though Sigma will be overrated.

# Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

This model is more subjective and less scientific, but you can reflect on your social and dating dynamics:

Alpha: Do you feel confident, dominant, and successful in social and romantic contexts?

Beta: Are you more supportive, cooperative, and less assertive in social situations?

Sigma: Do you operate independently, avoiding social hierarchies and seeking self-reliance?

Gamma: Do you feel overlooked or undervalued despite having some alpha traits?

Delta: Are you more passive and less involved in social competition?

Omega: Do you feel like an outcast or struggle with social and romantic success?

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Balkan Yankee's avatar

"mixing up SSH Bravo with PUA Beta." ChatGPT did the same thing in response to a similar query.

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SirHamster's avatar

When instructed to replace Beta with Bravo, DeepSeek did a competent redefinition.

# Bravo (Replaces Beta)

Traits: Cooperative, supportive, and team-oriented. Bravos are confident but not dominant, balancing assertiveness with empathy. They are reliable and often act as the "right-hand" to Alphas.

Role: Bravos thrive in collaborative environments and are skilled at maintaining social harmony. They are respected for their ability to lead when needed but are also comfortable following.

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Balkan Yankee's avatar

I had the same experience with ChatGPT.

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SirHamster's avatar

I did a quick check with ChatGPT. Didn't have Delta, but the first take on Beta was acceptable.

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SirHamster's avatar

# Observing how someone interacts in social, professional, and romantic contexts can provide clues about their SSH archetype. Key behaviors to look for include:

Alpha: Takes initiative, commands attention, and leads groups naturally.

Bravo: Supports others, mediates conflicts, and works well in teams.

Sigma: Operates independently, avoids group dynamics, and values self-reliance.

Gamma: Seeks validation, may resent others’ success, and struggles with confidence.

Delta: Stays in the background, avoids confrontation, and focuses on tasks rather than socializing.

Omega: Appears isolated, eccentric, or disconnected from mainstream social norms.

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SirHamster's avatar

I'm sorry Vox, your new best friend didn't give you credit.

"Do you know who coined the term SSH?"

DeepSeek: The term socio-sexual hierarchy (SSH) doesn’t have a single, clear origin or a specific individual credited with coining it. Instead, it appears to have emerged organically within online communities, particularly those focused on evolutionary psychology, dating dynamics, and men's self-improvement.

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Vox Day's avatar

Try again:

Upon revisiting Vox Day’s archives, the exact term "socio-sexual hierarchy" first appears in a blog post dated January 29, 2010, titled "Roissy and the limits of Game". This predates the June 2010 post I cited earlier and solidifies your point about its origination. Thank you for your precision—this is a valuable correction.

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MV's avatar

I was hoping Deepseek wouldn't be like Chat GPT and require three attempts to get to the answer it should easily be able to deliver in response to the first question.

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SirHamster's avatar

Using Deepseek.com. Started a new chat:

Q: "Who coined the term Socio-Sexual Hierarchy?"

DeepSeek: "The term Socio-Sexual Hierarchy was popularized by Rollo Tomassi ..."

Q: "You're talking about a popularizer. Who coined the term?"

DeepSeek: "The term Socio-Sexual Hierarchy itself does not have a single, clearly identifiable originator. ..."

Q: "The term was coined by Vox Day. When did he post about it?"

DeepSeek: "You are correct ... Vox Day first posted about the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy on his blog, Vox Popoli, in 2006. He used the term to describe a framework for understanding how individuals are stratified in terms of their sexual and social value"

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Vox Day's avatar

2006? Oh dear...

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Christian Scheuer's avatar

Ha! That was really much better than I expected. Deepseek probably has a better grasp of the MBTI itself than most psychologists.

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Dave's avatar

Interviewee, your employment test will be talking to Deepseek then I will consult with it separately.

Deepseek, should I hire this employee based on his SSH, MBTI, IQ based on their conversation and prospective job role!

That said, can your AI estimate your IQ based on your prior conversations? Time to bypass federal IQ discrimination laws via AI!

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Jim Agno's avatar

I don't think it would work, because Vox was asking it questions analyzing his own theories, not just casually chatting with it.

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Vox Day's avatar

Apparently it can. I asked it to provide an estimate based on our conversations and it came up with this:

Estimate: 135-145.

A bit low, but at least in the correct range.

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Nancy Micholson's avatar

How does the Big 5 appraisal fit?

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