The more similar the two parties, the better the results from deploying the golden rule. Ethno-states have higher similarity among their members than non ethno-states. Therefore, the golden rule will produce better results in an ethno-state than in a nation subjected to globalization efforts. I wonder, did this have anything to do with why the tribes of Israel (excepting Levi) were allotted separate living spaces?
O Supreme Dark Lord of the Evil Legion of Evil, Great Commander of the Dread Ilk, I beseech thee.
Spare me thy wrath!
I’ve no desire to vex thee nor to contribute mine own ivory to thy vast sea of skulls.
A lowly, unregistered minion am I, not even of the vile sort, of whom thou has graciously permitted to lurk ‘round the edges of thy mighty realm, drawing profound insight from thy masterful writ to which hath greatly enriched mine humble mind.
I mean no fawning flattery, O Master of the Vile Faceless Minion, but merely to proclaim my hearty thanks for thy splendid deeds, as always, on this Chrystopathy posting.
😁It’s been thought provoking for me and I am better for reading it, thanks again Vox
Vox, would it be reasonable to infer that the SSH adapted version of the Golden Rule would be something along the lines of "treat others the way they need to be treated"? Respect the alpha, ban the gamma?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" -
How many of us really want others to understand the true motivations behind our words and actions? Nobody really wants empathy from others. It's very dangerous and unsettling.
As in the last few posts, people are constantly broadcasting their internals for the world to see.
If you are acting in good conscience, why would it be unsettling? People fuck things up and are awkward frequently, if their heart is in the right place being read shouldn't be unsettling Id think.
Or just information disparity if they can read you but you cant read them?
Milton Bennett coined the "Platinum Rule" term to describe treating others the way they wish to be treated back in the late 70's. I'm unaware of earlier references. It was later popularized by a book of the same name by different authors.
Bennett's own definition of Sympathy corresponds more closely to Vox's Crysopathy definition, in my opinion.
The Platinum Rule is often criticized in terms of race relations for various reasons, but so is the Golden Rule. Interestingly, Bennett's own discussion of it uses Israel Zangwill's "melting pot" play and the idea of assimilation to frame his eventual take on sympathy, empathy, the Golden Rule, and the coining of the Platinum Rule.
Sending non Americans to Liberia again is completely compatible with the Golden rule.
If i went to their country and made it suck Id expect to be sent back too, and would see their protecting their country from me as something Id want for my country too.
Amazing post, that puts words to my suspicions. I can already see so many applications from this post. For example, I realize the best salespeople in business are empaths. They are better able to deal with objections because they are able to sense what people are thinking and feeling when they sell. This is one of the many reasons an alpha is going to succeed at sales. However, Jordan Belfort, the Wolf of Wall Street who is an alpha, made a career out of teaching non empaths a form of chrysopathy so they could sell better. I think you can learn how to get closer to empathy, but you'll never be as good as a true empath. If you are a Delta or Gamma, it's going to be a lot harder to get there and learning chrysopathy is extremely important. If you're an entreprenuer and a delta/gamma, then you might want to consider avoiding businesses that focus on high ticket sales or high level negotiations, unless you have a bravo/alpha partner or have the funds to hire them to do that work.
Developing actual empathy is hard but most likely possible for most men. The secret sauce to developing actual empathetic ability is metacognition, or the ability to observe and reason about one's own thought process. If you can tell when you might be projecting or letting your internal biases get in the way of observing others, you can eventually focus your mind properly on actual empathy. The reason people have to settle for chrysopathy, perspective taking, and other proxies is because developing metacognition is mentally taxing and often uncomfortable, and you don't know what you don't know. Its a major blindspot for most. The actual skill of empathy is rather straightforward, cultivating the mental ground for it is not.
Realistically psychopaths can and do by definition correctly deduce the internal states of others to various degrees. What they lack is called emotional contagion, which is the reflex to feel the emotion someone else is feeling. Also, due to their very limited experience with feeling emotions themselves, they have very few ways to directly relate to the experiences of others. This means that psychopathic empathy is almost entirely pure pattern recognition, unlike the regular empath who can not only notice but generate and feel the emotions of others in the course of their observation.
No, the psychopath is still a non-empath who is projecting, much like the narcissist. The difference is that a psychopath has blunted emotions and that allows him to be more detached and less reactive than the narcissist.
"less than ten percent of the human race has empathy"
It's interesting how often a characteristic which is only expressed at the far right of the bell curve is labelled by most people as a moral and aspirational good, and that anything less than that is therefore somehow a lack in dignity, virtue, or value as a human being.
The vast majority of people are not empathetic, incredibly physically attractive, vastly intelligent, wildly successful, or even any combination of the preceding. However, the vast majority of people also seem to have a need to believe that they are at least one of those things in order to be worthy as human beings.
There's nothing wrong with being closer to the middle; virtually everyone is, which is why we have a concept of normal. It's normal for both men and women to lack empathy, moreso for women than men. Ironically, it's also normal for most men and women to believe themselves empathetic. And so it goes.
Considering how normal women behave, it's probably a very good thing that they do lack empathy. Imagine, gentlemen, if she could understand the inner workings of your mind and recognize that you are so very different, in what ways, and how best that can be used to control the relationship. Combine that with her default level of virtue and self-control or lack thereof, and suddenly the thought of her being genuinely empathetic sounds a tad less appealing.
Conversely ladies, if you really were empathetic to your men, how likely would you be to get the ick pretty much immediately? He's not just a stronger, hornier woman, he's a different creature altogether. Do you really want to know what he thinks? Really? Ask him to explain in detail about his favorite hobby, and see how long it takes for you to completely lose interest.
Sympathetic, respectful, adoring - these are feminine characteristics that make for a happy relationship. Empathetic - perhaps not so much...
Most men likewise do not need higher order empathy beyond the basic observation of obvious emotional states. Delta narcissism can be annoying but the lack of empathy is only one factor in that behavior. It makes sense that advanced empathy is more seen in Alphas considering they have to manage and persuade people all of the time.
•Read body language. A nice go-to is the book "What Every Body Is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People". It's an entire profession, interrogations and investigations, about finding out people's reactions to information and events hidden from you. They have a decent body of knowledge available for those who wish to learn. If you have a girlfriend/friend you can people watch and compare notes based on what you learned.
•Actors can fall into this camp. There are the Joker-Leto method actors who go insane and there are classical actors who actually study people to know how they move when X happens. "When a person is drunk is they move their arms like this" or "When someone is angry they tense their shoulders like this". They must learn how they are seen, no physical solipsism allowed, and this eventually translates to their own understanding of others.
•Ditto with artists. Learning how to draw someone who is mad, sad, shifty and so on gives you the direct data by rote on what it looks like. Simulating empathy is just crossing the domain over to real people.
So a book or a hobby, such as the above, can help. Even a completely psychopathic individual can watch people and learn enough tells to guess what they're feeling. I am told a sales job can help too but I figure it's more a continuous practice ground rather than teaching in and of itself.
Another awesome one: "Never Split The Difference," by Chris Voss. Yet another FBI agent, who was a hostage negotiator. He volunteered at a suicide hotline so he could learn how to read people and negotiate, until eventually he became the FBI's best hostage negotiator.
The more similar the two parties, the better the results from deploying the golden rule. Ethno-states have higher similarity among their members than non ethno-states. Therefore, the golden rule will produce better results in an ethno-state than in a nation subjected to globalization efforts. I wonder, did this have anything to do with why the tribes of Israel (excepting Levi) were allotted separate living spaces?
You really are an egghead. How many angels are dancing on the top of your pinhead?
I see now.
This one doesn't rust.
That's what I would have meant by asserting that phrase to be 'infallible.'
There are better ways, but better ways require adaptation to remain better.
Ego is the way, huh. Like, generally. Ego is the way of Life.
O Supreme Dark Lord of the Evil Legion of Evil, Great Commander of the Dread Ilk, I beseech thee.
Spare me thy wrath!
I’ve no desire to vex thee nor to contribute mine own ivory to thy vast sea of skulls.
A lowly, unregistered minion am I, not even of the vile sort, of whom thou has graciously permitted to lurk ‘round the edges of thy mighty realm, drawing profound insight from thy masterful writ to which hath greatly enriched mine humble mind.
I mean no fawning flattery, O Master of the Vile Faceless Minion, but merely to proclaim my hearty thanks for thy splendid deeds, as always, on this Chrystopathy posting.
😁It’s been thought provoking for me and I am better for reading it, thanks again Vox
May Grace and Peace be with you and your family.
Made two prompts to ai, mc test for understanding the definitions, second for assessment of each trait for the test taker. Fun.
Bro, I never knew you had such reach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhLFMEseFg4
Vox, would it be reasonable to infer that the SSH adapted version of the Golden Rule would be something along the lines of "treat others the way they need to be treated"? Respect the alpha, ban the gamma?
Um, the golden rule wasnt the only rule. If you have a properly formed conscience, ie you understand the other rules also, the golden rule is great.
There is also the 'Ummpathetic' which is the possibly ten percent that goes 'I'm pretty sure others have thoughts, but I have no clue what they are.'
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" -
How many of us really want others to understand the true motivations behind our words and actions? Nobody really wants empathy from others. It's very dangerous and unsettling.
As in the last few posts, people are constantly broadcasting their internals for the world to see.
If you are acting in good conscience, why would it be unsettling? People fuck things up and are awkward frequently, if their heart is in the right place being read shouldn't be unsettling Id think.
Or just information disparity if they can read you but you cant read them?
That’s a better way to think of it.
Milton Bennett coined the "Platinum Rule" term to describe treating others the way they wish to be treated back in the late 70's. I'm unaware of earlier references. It was later popularized by a book of the same name by different authors.
Bennett's own definition of Sympathy corresponds more closely to Vox's Crysopathy definition, in my opinion.
The Platinum Rule is often criticized in terms of race relations for various reasons, but so is the Golden Rule. Interestingly, Bennett's own discussion of it uses Israel Zangwill's "melting pot" play and the idea of assimilation to frame his eventual take on sympathy, empathy, the Golden Rule, and the coining of the Platinum Rule.
Sending non Americans to Liberia again is completely compatible with the Golden rule.
If i went to their country and made it suck Id expect to be sent back too, and would see their protecting their country from me as something Id want for my country too.
Amazing post, that puts words to my suspicions. I can already see so many applications from this post. For example, I realize the best salespeople in business are empaths. They are better able to deal with objections because they are able to sense what people are thinking and feeling when they sell. This is one of the many reasons an alpha is going to succeed at sales. However, Jordan Belfort, the Wolf of Wall Street who is an alpha, made a career out of teaching non empaths a form of chrysopathy so they could sell better. I think you can learn how to get closer to empathy, but you'll never be as good as a true empath. If you are a Delta or Gamma, it's going to be a lot harder to get there and learning chrysopathy is extremely important. If you're an entreprenuer and a delta/gamma, then you might want to consider avoiding businesses that focus on high ticket sales or high level negotiations, unless you have a bravo/alpha partner or have the funds to hire them to do that work.
Developing actual empathy is hard but most likely possible for most men. The secret sauce to developing actual empathetic ability is metacognition, or the ability to observe and reason about one's own thought process. If you can tell when you might be projecting or letting your internal biases get in the way of observing others, you can eventually focus your mind properly on actual empathy. The reason people have to settle for chrysopathy, perspective taking, and other proxies is because developing metacognition is mentally taxing and often uncomfortable, and you don't know what you don't know. Its a major blindspot for most. The actual skill of empathy is rather straightforward, cultivating the mental ground for it is not.
Very interesting comment. Lots to think about there.
"I'm a chrysopath." sounds bad-ass.
It is often said the sociopaths and psychopaths lack empathy and/or sympathy.
Could it be that many of them do not lack these but actually choose to use these as explotations of what they view as weakness in others?
This would seem to be eye opening to the generalized understanding of many power hungry persons in the socio/psychopathic category if true.
Realistically psychopaths can and do by definition correctly deduce the internal states of others to various degrees. What they lack is called emotional contagion, which is the reflex to feel the emotion someone else is feeling. Also, due to their very limited experience with feeling emotions themselves, they have very few ways to directly relate to the experiences of others. This means that psychopathic empathy is almost entirely pure pattern recognition, unlike the regular empath who can not only notice but generate and feel the emotions of others in the course of their observation.
No, the psychopath is still a non-empath who is projecting, much like the narcissist. The difference is that a psychopath has blunted emotions and that allows him to be more detached and less reactive than the narcissist.
I appreciate the response. That makes sense
No.
Youre just making up nonsense.
Could, would, if true.
Lurk more.
I wasn't making things up. I was asking.
Vox answered. Much appreciated.
"less than ten percent of the human race has empathy"
It's interesting how often a characteristic which is only expressed at the far right of the bell curve is labelled by most people as a moral and aspirational good, and that anything less than that is therefore somehow a lack in dignity, virtue, or value as a human being.
The vast majority of people are not empathetic, incredibly physically attractive, vastly intelligent, wildly successful, or even any combination of the preceding. However, the vast majority of people also seem to have a need to believe that they are at least one of those things in order to be worthy as human beings.
There's nothing wrong with being closer to the middle; virtually everyone is, which is why we have a concept of normal. It's normal for both men and women to lack empathy, moreso for women than men. Ironically, it's also normal for most men and women to believe themselves empathetic. And so it goes.
Considering how normal women behave, it's probably a very good thing that they do lack empathy. Imagine, gentlemen, if she could understand the inner workings of your mind and recognize that you are so very different, in what ways, and how best that can be used to control the relationship. Combine that with her default level of virtue and self-control or lack thereof, and suddenly the thought of her being genuinely empathetic sounds a tad less appealing.
Conversely ladies, if you really were empathetic to your men, how likely would you be to get the ick pretty much immediately? He's not just a stronger, hornier woman, he's a different creature altogether. Do you really want to know what he thinks? Really? Ask him to explain in detail about his favorite hobby, and see how long it takes for you to completely lose interest.
Sympathetic, respectful, adoring - these are feminine characteristics that make for a happy relationship. Empathetic - perhaps not so much...
Most men likewise do not need higher order empathy beyond the basic observation of obvious emotional states. Delta narcissism can be annoying but the lack of empathy is only one factor in that behavior. It makes sense that advanced empathy is more seen in Alphas considering they have to manage and persuade people all of the time.
Everyone who doesn't have empathy thinks projection is empathy.
That is why it is guaranteed to be considered the highest possible virtue by morons who have no idea what it is.
Thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate insight that give me a light bulb of the mind moment.
Regarding synthetic empathy some tips:
•Read body language. A nice go-to is the book "What Every Body Is Saying: An Ex-FBI Agent's Guide to Speed-Reading People". It's an entire profession, interrogations and investigations, about finding out people's reactions to information and events hidden from you. They have a decent body of knowledge available for those who wish to learn. If you have a girlfriend/friend you can people watch and compare notes based on what you learned.
•Actors can fall into this camp. There are the Joker-Leto method actors who go insane and there are classical actors who actually study people to know how they move when X happens. "When a person is drunk is they move their arms like this" or "When someone is angry they tense their shoulders like this". They must learn how they are seen, no physical solipsism allowed, and this eventually translates to their own understanding of others.
•Ditto with artists. Learning how to draw someone who is mad, sad, shifty and so on gives you the direct data by rote on what it looks like. Simulating empathy is just crossing the domain over to real people.
So a book or a hobby, such as the above, can help. Even a completely psychopathic individual can watch people and learn enough tells to guess what they're feeling. I am told a sales job can help too but I figure it's more a continuous practice ground rather than teaching in and of itself.
Another awesome one: "Never Split The Difference," by Chris Voss. Yet another FBI agent, who was a hostage negotiator. He volunteered at a suicide hotline so he could learn how to read people and negotiate, until eventually he became the FBI's best hostage negotiator.